twilightgun.jpg
The Smith & Wesson 9 mm pistol recovered by Seattle police after a shooting at Twilight Exit bar on Sunday was not registered to the gunman, but was not reported stolen. (Photo: SPD)

Even with help of ATF, tracking firearm can lead to dead end

BY Brandi Kruse  on January 31, 2013 @ 5:09 am (Updated: 8:35 am - 1/31/13 )

Seattle police say they will try to track down the origin of a gun used to shoot two people inside a Central District bar Sunday.

The Smith & Wesson 9 mm pistol recovered by Seattle police after the shooting at Twilight Exit was not registered to the gunman, but was not reported stolen.

James D. Anderson, 32, walked into the bar on East Cherry Street shortly after 10:15 p.m. After shooting his former girlfriend and a bouncer, he was shot and killed by a Seattle police officer.

According to police, Anderson was not authorized to own a firearm due his criminal history.

A spokesperson for the Seattle Police Department said officers track every weapon used to commit a crime within the city, but often seek help from agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives.

"It's a process of trying to track down and sometimes it can come to a dead end," said ATF Special Agent Cheryl Bishop, who is based in Seattle.

Bishop said once agents are given the guns make, model and serial number, their first step is to go to the manufacturer. The manufacturer can lead agents to the distributor, which should be able to tell them the gun dealer who first sold the firearm.

Every gun dealer registered with the federal government will have filled out an ATF Form 4473, which will tell agents who the firearm's original owner was. Because such forms are not entered into a central computer database, agents must sometimes pour through papers by hand to get the information.

From there, agents track the gun's movements - sometimes from private seller to private seller - a difficult process due to the lack of paperwork required in private sales.

"The older the firearm is, the higher the chances are you may come to a dead end," Bishop said. "It's extremely labor intensive."

Brandi Kruse, KIRO Radio Reporter
Brandi Kruse is a reporter for KIRO Radio who is as spontaneous and adventurous in her free time as she is on the job. Brandi arrived at KIRO Radio in March 2011 and has already collected three regional Edward R. Murrow awards for her reporting.
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Comments (33)


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  • Paul Kersey wrote...
    If it came from Fast and Furious
    January 31, 2013 4:58 am
    we will never hear another peep about this evil gun.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • mnpat wrote...
    Sad to say that weapons released by our own government....
    January 31, 2013 6:42 am
    Led to numerous murders including American law enforcement....and no one has been held responsible!
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Paul Kersey wrote...
    What difference does it make?
    January 31, 2013 5:04 am
    Shrillary Clinton
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • calapete wrote...
    I hope they find the owner and charge as an accomplice to murder
    January 31, 2013 5:28 am
    Irresponsible gun owners must face consequences.

    Just the fact that the police do not have the ability to quickly look up the registered owner of a hand gun is very disturbing. Come on, lets here the CAR comparisons now. FAIL.

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • po_guy wrote...
    You
    January 31, 2013 8:13 am
    are stupid.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • lk stevens wrote...
    Spelling: it's an old-fashioned thing I guess
    January 31, 2013 5:49 am
    Brandi, dear, generally good article with all elements in place, but your choice of the spelling of words! " ...not authorized to own a firearm DUE ( not "do") to his criminal history." And agents do not "poor" through papers by hand. They could sort, dig, or possibly what you were trying to convey, "pore" through papers by hand. Can't rely on the ol' spell checker every time!
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Cash wrote...
    Sheesh
    January 31, 2013 11:10 am
    Thanks perfect.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • DesertRez wrote...
    More propaganda
    January 31, 2013 5:53 am
    This is what liberals want: illegal private sales and registration of all firearms. Just skip the article.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • MainEvent wrote...
    @calapete
    January 31, 2013 5:57 am
    That's not only the most ignorant thing i have heard in a while its possibly the dumbest. What if an old car you sold was involved in a DUI wreck that killed someone? Should you be held responsible? Yeah, i don't think so. There is a hundred different ways that gun could get into the hands of that psychopath. Most of which wouldn't necessarily be the "original" owners fault.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • calapete wrote...
    you are right, there are a 100 ways
    January 31, 2013 7:32 am
    That's why they are investigating.

    Maybe the idiot sold the gun through a private sale and didn't bother to do a background check. If so, jail time is in order for the original gun owner.

    or maybe the gun was stolen from the gun safe, the trigger lock was dismantled and the police report was lost. If so, we thank the gun owner for doing their very best to keep the gun secured.

    Why is it that Cars are all registered in a database a cop can determine the registered owner in 4 second. But not with guns, the cops have to pour, poor and pore over the records to find the registered owner. WHY? that is absurd.

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • po_guy wrote...
    Again
    January 31, 2013 8:14 am
    you are stupid.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • calapete wrote...
    thank you for your thoughful, well eloquated response
    January 31, 2013 8:39 am
    now get off the computer before your mommy finds out.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    Calpete
    January 31, 2013 10:09 am
    He was merely making a factual statement in the lowest form so that your simple mind could understand.

    You are an Idiot.

    Someone already pointed out with your simple reasoning if anything you sell is involved in a death YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE. Period.

    IMHO that makes you an idiot.

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • calapete wrote...
    really, we are stuck on this stupid car comparision
    January 31, 2013 10:42 am
    what happens when I sell my car to a neighbor? I have 90 days to turn in a seller report. The buyer has 90 days to register the car and pay the sales tax.

    Why are cars more regulated than machines designed to kill?

    You are gonna lose this one Rick, just accept that you can't just sell guns to anyone. that is NOT your right.

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    Im not arguing registering
    January 31, 2013 10:55 am
    Im arguing your stupid point of making people whom sell a weapon responsible.

    Mine are registered. Period. Because its the law

    Read what Feinstein is really intending with her law. Read what her ultimate goal is

    thats what Im fighting about and this little freedom at a time by politicians is crap. When are we Americans going to stand up and say enough. Or are you willing to god down the path we are on freely and accept what the end might be.

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • calapete wrote...
    what if it turns out that a seller sold the gun to the kiler
    January 31, 2013 12:21 pm
    and did no background check? No consequences?

    Today the law would probably be on your side. But that doesn't mean it's right.

    Gun owners are starting to sound like a special interest group! Oh yeah, you are. You have a high powered lobbyists.

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • otherpointofview wrote...
    what if
    January 31, 2013 1:48 pm
    what if it was sold privately and the responsible owner did a background check and the suspect at the time of the sale didn't have a criminal record and the background check came in clean... now what? you shouldn't just assume. guns don't get registered because there are no laws that require registration and it should stay that way. the government doesn't need to know who owns firearms because "every gun" is sold through the legal channel and that's why gun laws work so well..and that's why we should have more gun laws in addition to the 9000 federal laws already in place... because more gun laws are going to stop the gun violence in this country. more gun laws are going to stop the pychopath with murder in his heart... right
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • William Lawn wrote...
    If you didn't report the sale you could be held responsible
    January 31, 2013 12:27 pm
    And you are the owner of record.

    As I've said before, I think this train has left the station.

    I read somewhere that over 3 million guns were IMPORTED to the US last year.

    I just don't think it would be possible to establish an "owner of record" for the tens of millions of guns out there.

    Plus the true RWNJs would fight tooth an nail against it because they KNOW Obama wants to get their guns. Their paranoia runs deep.

    Look at Kersey.

    If there was a practical way to do it (there isn't), I wouldn't care who knew what I had, but then I'm not a RWNJ, just a guy who has a few target pistols and rifles, a couple of historic pieces, a home defense gun and a carry piece.

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    The police have the person who commited this crime.
    January 31, 2013 6:52 am
    Yes the man is dead. what pourpose does it serve to find out anything more about the gun? Is someone planning on suing someone? Dose this bring back the Dead?
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • AceBass wrote...
    Exactly
    January 31, 2013 7:09 am
    this is why as gun owners we should be REQUIRED BY LAW to document through legal means WHO we sell our privately owned firearms to. Universal background checks are good for ALL of us. It wont stop all crime. It wont stop most of it, but it will impede some of i,t and it demonstrates good faith on the part of 2nd amendment defenders -that there are SENSIBLE actions that can be pursued to help make committing a crime with a firearm more difficult = less likely.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • po_guy wrote...
    These arguments are so exasperating.
    January 31, 2013 8:16 am
    I suppose that once a gun is stolen, it should be tracked every time the thief sells it to another criminal, etc etc etc...what iimbecilic thinking.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • shark75 wrote...
    Liberals realize the gun law did ZERO good
    January 31, 2013 7:45 am
    So now they are grasping for straws. What are they going to do once they find the original owner? Lead him into the town square and burn him at the stake? They'd love to do that now wouldn't they. It will satisfy their irrational and emotional response to this. When you need cooler heads to prevail, don't look to a liberal....
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • shark75 wrote...
    P.S: Hey Calapete
    January 31, 2013 7:48 am
    When you do something wrong you usually blame everyone else around you, dont you. Just like your hero Obama. Thank God I don't work with anyone like you. Course, I don't work for the goverment...
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
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