Boy Scout leaders to vote on lifting gay ban

May 22, 2013 @ 6:19 pm


Boy Scouts from right, Joey Kalich, 10, Steven Grime, 7, and Jonathon Grime, 9, raise their hands at the close of a news conference held by people against the change in the Boy Scouts of America gay policy Wednesday, May 22, 2013, in Grapevine, Texas. Delegates to the Boys Scouts of America meeting nearby are expected to address a proposal to allow gay scouts into the organization. (AP Photo/LM Otero) | Zoom

GRAPEVINE, Texas (AP) - As protesters made one last stand, the Boy Scouts of America's leadership began a conference Wednesday that was expected to culminate in a long-anticipated vote on whether to allow openly gay Scouts _ a decision that, either way, could deeply affect the organization's membership and funding.

Scouting leaders from around the country gathered at a resort in Grapevine, Texas, near the youth organization's suburban Dallas headquarters, for their annual national meeting. The three-day meeting is being closely watched because Scout officials have scheduled a vote Thursday on a resolution that would not allow youth Scouts to be excluded based only on sexual orientation. The ban on gay adult leaders would remain in place.

Conservatives and some religious groups have opposed the plan, which is backed by gay-rights supporters. National groups on both sides have organized protests and campaigns to woo the approximately 1,400 members of the national council who will cast ballots.

On the eve of the vote, BSA President Wayne Perry called for voters to approve the resolution. He wrote an opinion piece for USA Today saying a change is "the right decision for Boy Scouts."

"Parents, adults in the Scouting community and teens alike tend to agree that youth should not be denied the benefits of Scouting," he said in the piece, published online Wednesday. "The resolution is not about adults; it is about what is best for young people."

The meeting is closed to the public, with staffers and security watching for protesters and the media. About two dozen people holding up signs saying "NO on the resolution" stood on the sidewalk Wednesday outside the entrance. Meanwhile, supporters of the change gathered at a resort across the street, holding a meeting they dubbed the "Equal Scouting Summit."

Speaking on both sides were current and former Eagle Scouts who had worked years to achieve Scouting's highest rank. They recited parts of the Scout Oath and the 12-point Scout Law _ from "trustworthy" to "reverent" _ to make their separate cases.

Dave McGrath and one of his six sons, Joe, rode their bicycles from Idaho to Texas to support Scouts for Equality, which has organized rallies in several cities. McGrath, 48, said he had two children and a brother who are gay and that he considered the current exclusion policy a "taint" on his Eagle Scout honor.

"So a Scout is trustworthy, unless you're gay," McGrath said. "That isn't the way I was raised."

Meanwhile, John Wade, a former Eagle from Tennessee who now is a minister, called the possible change an extreme departure from what he described as Scouting's roots in biblical values.

"I think that it really presents a danger as well as a conflict of interest to what BSA was originally started as," said Wade, 26.

The debate is deeply emotional for many people on both sides, who talked about their experiences in Scouting and their worry about what would happen next.

Bill Lizzio of Johnson City, Tenn., who is Wade's former scoutmaster, was holding one end of a banner opposing the change and waving at cars driving into the resort. Asked about the harm of allowing gays, he talked about his concern with sexual attraction between Scouts, saying that he wouldn't let a boy and a girl sleep in the same tent at camp.

"And so how do we keep people apart that might have an attraction and don't openly state that to the adult leadership?" Lizzio said. "Or the ones that do, now do we segregate a gay Scout and put him in a tent by himself?

"That sends a terrible message. It doesn't work."

But Mark Noel described a different situation from when he was a scoutmaster in New Hampshire. A group of Scouts came to him and asked what he would do if one of them was gay. The Scouts didn't know Noel himself was gay.

"What could I tell them? That I'm an ally, it's OK? I'm with you?" Noel said Wednesday, his voice wavering. "There's no way for me to even signal them that it's OK, that I am not going to be conditional about applying the Scout Oath and Law."

"I am loyal, period. Friendly, period. Courteous, period," he said.

Thursday's expected vote brings an end to a fight that has resembled a political campaign.

Opponents of a change sent mailings to voting members, after fighting to get the names and addresses voters from BSA, by citing a Texas requirement that allowed any voting member to see the full list, said John Stemberger, organizer of OnMyHonor.net. They also scheduled 40 rallies across the country on the same day last week.

Supporters of allowing gay Scouts used a political consulting firm and targeted about 120 local Scouting councils that they thought were the most competitive _ the "swing districts" where they thought votes could be won. Zach Wahls, founder of Scouts for Equality, said earlier this week that they believed to have about 300 "yes" votes confirmed through public announcements and internal conversations, with perhaps 100 or so leaning yes.

"We've done everything that we can," Wahls said. "We feel like we are very prepared for any outcome."

No one will know for sure, however, until BSA announces the results Thursday evening.

____

On the Web: BSA Membership Standards Resolution: http://bit.ly/185yyXk

Associated Press National Writer David Crary in New York contributed to this report.

Follow Nomaan Merchant on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/nomaanmerchant


(Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)
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Comments (40)


  • Add A Comment

  • flipper wrote...
    Reasonable
    January 28, 2013 2:51 pm
    Puts the policy on membership based on sexual orientation on the local troop. Don't see how that's wrong.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Rangerhawk wrote...
    Unless of course
    January 28, 2013 6:56 pm
    They say no. Or yes.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • CH wrote...
    So much for morally straight -
    January 28, 2013 6:44 pm
    might as well give them real Guns too!!
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • RonJ wrote...
    CH
    January 29, 2013 9:30 am
    we had real guns. Used to shoot single-shot bolt action .22's at summer camp every year on a range.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • CH wrote...
    ex-priests to become
    January 29, 2013 6:41 am
    scout leaders?
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • imanegro wrote...
    It's a cop-out
    January 29, 2013 7:29 am
    Don't do it. You're a great example of morality and decency. Don't follow the crowd... right over the cliff.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • RonJ wrote...
    I've notified the national leadership
    February 6, 2013 6:54 am
    that I intend to turn in everyone of my awards if they follow through with this.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Denco25 wrote...
    What A Shame
    January 29, 2013 9:15 am
    Too bad they might have to do this just to keep corporate donations coming in. I was a boy Scout many years ago, as was my son. If my son's troop had openly homosexual parent leaders, I would pull him him out of that troop and find one that shared our values.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Keitho wrote...
    NAMBLA is salivating
    January 29, 2013 9:47 am
    So, they are pressured to bend to the gay lobby due to lawsuits. I fail to see how this resolves the lawsuit issue. 2, 5, 10 years from now when stories come out about boys being abused where are they going to point the finger? At the boy scouts for their policy allowing gay scout leaders. This is not a healthy thing for the boy scouts. Scouting is supposed to help in the development of young boys into godly, strong men. I fail to see how allowing gay leaders would help in either the godly or strong men development objectives. Shame on the scouts for caving
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Snout wrote...
    Look at the picture and how much Lezzy cares about the Scouts.
    January 29, 2013 9:53 am
    You can tell by the way she keeps that uni all clean, pressed and - Oh come on, lady. Did you pick that up at a Goodwill for this meeting? You could have at least tucked in the blouse. What a disgrace.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • UncleLou wrote...
    Why fight to uphold intolerance?
    January 29, 2013 10:09 am
    Homosexuality does not predispose someone to being a pedophile any more than the priesthood or parenthood exempts someone from being a pedophile. What a truly short sighted and ignorant argument.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • imanegro wrote...
    Why?
    January 29, 2013 2:26 pm
    Because homo behavior is unnatural in addition to being revolting. The recent wave of homo activism (especially gay marriage) is not about 'tolerance' but rather legitimizing behavior. Homo behavior is not a value I wish to be legitimized. It is unhealthy (physically, emotionally, and spiritually), and while does not predispose one to being a pedophile, the instance of pedophilia among homos is MUCH higher than the population in general. It's a fact, not fear. We discriminate against people all the time, and for most of humanity have discriminated against homos. There is a reason for it. If you want to stop discrimination, fine. How about we force churches to perform abortions and sell cigarettes to children.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • The Dude Abides wrote...
    I love the idea, negro!
    February 7, 2013 1:59 pm
    Let's put an old-school cigarette vending machine in every church! God knows we all need a smoke after all those glorious sermons where our pastor tells us to shoot all them queers and terrorists to make sure we get into Heaven! Better make sure we stock the machine full of Kools at them thar Baptist churches! And Hey! While we're at it, let's start ordaining ministers everywhere with the authority and ability to perform abortions! That way, when our children sin in the eyes of the Lord our God, we don't have to worry about a demon offspring poppin out of her womb! After all, if mommy and daddy aren't married to each other, that baby's doomed to heck anyway! Why make Grandma and Grandpa suffer through that shame?! Did ya finish readin that, negro? That's you. That's what you sound like to everyone else. Just thought I'd bring it to your attention.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • imanegro wrote...
    uh, I don't think so
    February 7, 2013 3:46 pm
    Nice try, doofus abides.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Keitho wrote...
    UNCLELOU
    January 29, 2013 3:28 pm
    Nooone is accusing every homosexual of being a predator but NAMBLA (national man-boy love association) is an association of hpomosexuals who feel it is normal to have sex with little boys as their title states. Also, I would say a priest who commits homosexual acts with a minor male is also a predator and also homosexual given the same sex predisposition. We should be vigilant about women preying on little boys as well but that is extremely rare.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • RonJ wrote...
    UncleLou
    February 6, 2013 6:59 am
    short sighted and ignorant or not I also would not allow a son to be a member of a troop with openly homosexual leaders, anymore than I would let me daughters be led/mentored by a pack of men claiming to be "leaders". Homosexuality DOES predispose pedophilia towards boys. Ya think their there because they want to molest squirrels?
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • JohnQEveryman wrote...
    meh.
    January 29, 2013 10:14 am
    It kinda seems like there are more worthwhile ventures for people to put their kids in, if you have to sue the ba-jesus out of an entity to get equality. I certainly don't agree with their policy, but I won't ever allow my kids to join the Scouts if nothing more than their obstinance. Maybe if we all voted with our membership (as it were), they would take note... it works for businesses/boycotts.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • po_guy wrote...
    You are so right!!!
    January 29, 2013 10:38 am
    Don't you think that next or soon, will be suing churches to FORCE any one of their choosing to marry them? The handwriting is on the wall. Sodom and Gomorrah all over again...tsk tsk tsk...
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • RonJ wrote...
    Better to see them disband
    February 6, 2013 7:01 am
    than to allow homo leaders.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Citizen of Krazy Town wrote...
    As a former scout, now a scout leader with four sons who have been.are/will be scouts
    January 29, 2013 10:30 am
    I think this was the right move, and it is completely in line with President Obama's stance on gay marriage, with nearly the same timing of "evolution" of thought. Personally, I am not surprised at all to learn this as the top levels of BSA have been working hard for the past several years to evolve the national program to become more relevant and exciting for modern youth, from the construction of the new high adventure base, The Summit: Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve, with its extreme sports activities designed under consultation from the top X-Games athletes, to integration of modern personal electronics to enhance the traditional scouting experience. I do not feel that the safety of our kids will be compromised by this change as the BSA has one of the most comprehensive youth protection programs of any youth organization on the planet. Every child, parent, volunteer and employee are given age and participant-context training so that every participant is aware of the BSA policies regarding youth-interaction. Additionally, my pack's sponsoring organization, a local Catholic Church, requires all parent volunteers to attend an additional four-hour youth protection training where adults discusss, in a very frank manner, the issues of child molestation and how to identify, deter and report threats to the children. I am confident is stating that children in today's BSA are most probably safer than in any other youth organization in the country. Also, I think, particularly in our area and other gay-friendly areas this policy would be a good thing for scouting as it is aligned with the civil discussion and education that our kids get in other aspects of their lives while still allowing other localities to self-manage their evolution based on community support. Finally, to Luke Burbank's proclamation on this morning's show that he thinks that scouting in the US is "on the wane", I would direct him to the BSA's media page at http://www.scouting.org/Media/MediaKit/AtaGlance.aspx where he can see that, with nearly four million youth and adult members in the US alone, he couldn't be any further from the truth.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • imanegro wrote...
    Wrong: Citizen of Krazy Town
    January 29, 2013 2:33 pm
    By definition, when you allow a group of people known to have a higher instance of pedophilia around potential victims, the number of 'incidents' will rise. Training doesn't stop pedophiles any more than 'Gun Free Zone' signs stop mass shootings. Also, in case you didn't realize it, homo behavior is a sin in the Catholic church, so an openly practicing homo should be loved, but should not ever be put in a position of authority.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Citizen of Krazy Town wrote...
    @Imanegro: A few thoughts:
    January 29, 2013 4:15 pm
    1) Lifting the ban isn't going to materialize more homosexuals. These people already live among us and interact with us daily.

    2) There is no scientific or empirical evidence that gay people are more prone to pedophilia and, in fact, the opposite is true based on several thoroughly vetted studies.

    3) The BSA training teaches kids, parents and volunteers how to identify, confront and report dangerous and illegal behavior like grooming, inappropriate interactions and assaults as well as level set everyone on BSA policies that are distinctly designed to make a scouting environment hostile to a pedophile like two-deep leadership as an example. Pedophiles are not attracted to organizations where the children and adults are alert, and uninhibited about demanding appropriate behavior. Pedophiles are more likely to be your neighborhood babysitter, or your relative, than a volunteer in scouting or church.

    4) Your final comment is intriguing as it seems to imply that no individual, who is a sinner, should be in a position of leadership. I'm fascinated how one person can be so unecumbered with facts and logic!

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • imanegro wrote...
    @crazytown: A few thoughts:
    February 6, 2013 8:06 am
    Good reply. I don't agree, of course, but good reply. #1. Agreed. #2. This is false. Homos are known to have higher instances of pedophilia among their ranks. #3. As I said, training does not stop pedophilia, period. It may slow it down, but where do you draw the line? Under 10 rapes per county is OK? Pedophiles are attracted to all organizations that attract kids, regardless of what training is provided. #4. I don't mean to imply, I mean to state: Homos should not be given authority over kids, period. Same way an arsonist should not run a match factory. When you are an openly practicing pervert (and yes, the homo act is perverted) of any variety, you should not be put in a position of authority over potential victims. That's called common sense.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
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