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No algebra? That's 'ignorant and outrageous'

August 1, 2012 @ 6:22 pm (Updated: 10:10 am - 8/2/12 )

Listen to No algebra? A UW professor says that's outrageous

With disdain, a University of Washington professor reacts to the notion that it's no longer necessary to expect the vast majority of K-12 students to study algebra, geometry or calculus.

"That is complete nonsense," says Cliff Mass, a professor of atmospheric sciences at the UW. "It comes from a person who really doesn't understand what they're saying."

The suggestion comes from Andrew Hacker, an author and former professor of political science at Queens College in New York City, who wrote a New York Times op-ed piece entitled Is Algebra Necessary?

Algebra"One of the myths is that mathematics - algebra, trigonometry, calculus - train your mind," Hacker told the Ross and Burbank show on 97.3 KIRO FM.

"Yes, they train your mind to solve algebra problems," he says, "but there's no evidence that studying algebra or calculus makes you more astute or perceptive when it comes to politics, society or your personal life."

Hacker also claims of ninth graders, 25 percent never finish high school and the reason "teachers tell me again and again, is because of algebra."

"We're not doing a good job teaching math, students aren't doing well, so let's get rid of it. That's ridiculous," says Mass.

Mass passionately describes the subject, involving brackets and unknown variables, the same way you would talk about a favorite class from college or an adored high school teacher.

"Algebra is behind much of what we see around us, from buildings to engineering to roads, it's everywhere. It is one of the intellectual achievements of our species," says Mass. "Not to learn about algebra is no different than not learning about Shakespeare or some other subject we think is important."

Math isn't the problem. The way schools teach it is, according to Mass. He doesn't like the Discovery Math curriculum many school districts in the state, including Seattle, use. It's also referred to as fuzzy math, or every day math.

That approach to math replaces learning basic skills such as addition, multiplication, and division with class discussion, group projects, object manipulation, and heavy use of calculators. The theory behind it is that kids need to "discover" the age-old principles of math in order to master and apply them effectively.

Hacker believes math is "a huge boulder we make everyone pull, without assessing what all this pain achieves." He says he can't find a compelling reason to require it.

UW math professor Andrew Loveless has compelling reasons.

"We need logical thinkers in our society," says Loveless. "We need people who are not swayed by biased statistics or crazy rhetoric. We need people who can think creatively and abstractly to sort out our tough social and economic problems. After adding, dividing and multiplying numbers, the next most basic level of abstract thinking is algebra."

The argument that "only five percent of workers use math skills involving algebra or higher level math on the job" doesn't sway Loveless.

"Couldn't that be said about any subject? How many people use biology in their job? How many people use history in their job? What about spelling, what about diagramming a sentence, what about chemistry, what about civics, what about economics, what about PE, what about foreign language? It seems to me that the vast majority of subjects in schools are not ultimately used on the job. So by that logic, it seems that we shouldn't be teaching our kids any of this," he says, knowing that's not what we want for our society.

"To have a population that is ignorant of these subjects is outrageous," says Mass. "It is a certain way for the United States to fall back into second or third rate status."

By LINDA THOMAS

More from Linda Thomas

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Comments (25)


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  • Citizen of Krazy Town wrote...
    He has a point: most stuff kids learn IS useless in everyday life
    August 1, 2012 5:49 pm
    It would seem that the fuss may be based on fear of liberal arts (aka the huge money grab of the Baby Boomers) being eschewed for useful education like skilled labor apprenticeship... Where would all those useless profs go then?
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  • howdareyou wrote...
    Andrew Hacker : visionary
    August 1, 2012 6:13 pm
    End the torture. Never understood algebra, never will. Good chance I will never use it then right? Unless, you WANT someone forced to pretend they get algebra to build your bridges and hospitals? Sounds like fun!
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  • Chris Halliday wrote...
    I'm with Citizen
    August 1, 2012 6:19 pm
    I realize the professor was trying to prove his point when he spoke of how useless much of our kid's curriculum is. He was trying to be sarcastic but it got me thinking. Why do we have kids learning so much useless stuff? As far as I can tell reading, writing, basic math, and computers should be topics of absolute importance. Teach the kid a trade and then send them out into the world with a good paying job. If the kid wants to further his or her education later in life, so be it. They can choose to take night classes or something. Shakespeare, biology, history, chemistry, civics, economics, foriegn language (I really see absolutely no reason for foriegn language.) are all wastes of time and money. But overcomplicating society is big money. Professors, lawyers, accountants, politicians and many more are just jobs that overcomplicate very simple issues. I'm not a religious man but I do believe in God. His way of doing things will be made quite simple when judgement day arrives. I don't need an overcomplicated Bible to tell me that.
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  • Derrol_o wrote...
    Halliday
    August 1, 2012 9:09 pm
    Overcomplicated Bible? Assumption being God missed the mark on underestimating how complicated the Bible is or overestimating his creation's ability to understand it?
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  • JW1984 wrote...
    The sad truth is...
    August 2, 2012 1:38 pm
    ...that we, as a society, have come to a point where most of us lead our lives in a manner that doesn't require these skills. We spend our time playing video games, watching TV, and tweeting. I try - I often fail, but I try desperately - to spend my time doing things that DO require these skills. For example, I am currently studying hobby-electronics and discovering how useful algebra is. Learning music in school prepared me to produce my own music and write a series of music books. Learning a foreign language has brought me professional opportunities in Latin America. Studying history allows me to have meaningful conversations with my wife and children. Studying economics helps me to recognize all the manipulated statistics that our president and other politicians put out. Reading good literature helps me to write better. It is possible to live (or more appropriately, waste) your life in a way that doesn't require any many skills, but I believe that there are more fulfilling ways to live.
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  • Chris Halliday wrote...
    AJ
    August 1, 2012 8:17 pm
    Lawyers are the most self depricating people you will ever meet. But the law is very simple. The simple truth actually does go a long way in a courtroom. Cops violate peoples' constitutional rights so often it's easy pickings when it comes to lawsuits against them.
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  • Estip wrote...
    Algebra...
    August 1, 2012 9:37 pm
    "but there's no evidence that studying algebra or calculus makes you more astute or perceptive when it comes to politics.." Good one! When it comes to politics, it would seem that the more ignorant one is on many subjects, the better.
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  • roomtemp wrote...
    I think algebra is a necessary evil...
    August 1, 2012 11:06 pm
    Even though I completely sucked at it and it was the only class that I didn't get an A in. Stupid algebra(!) trashing my 4.0 made me so mad I went back and took it again later in community college so I could prove it was the teachers fault. I did finally get my A, so it was. lol

    Do I use it now? Nope. I'm sure I've forgotten most of it. (Not a math head.) But I know a few people who do, like engineers and programmers. I don't use Shakespeare either frankly, but I'm not sorry I read some. Of all the 'subjects' I think PE was the most blatantly useless.

    The thing is, school should be like going to a huge buffet. You never really know what foods you're going to like until you try them. Kids should be given the opportunity to sample as much as possible. Not just because they're going to need it, but because it makes them a more well rounded human.

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  • mnpat wrote...
    A good education never hurts....
    August 2, 2012 8:18 am
    I use math every day, trig, geometry.......glad I had the opportunity and background of real courses that weren't subjective philosophical BS.
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  • tlmbrt wrote...
    All part of the socialist plan
    August 1, 2012 11:33 pm
    to get rid of real education in order to dumb down the population and replace it with leftist America-hating indoctrination. After all, if it's hard work it must be RACIST, SEXIST or HOMOPHOBIC, right? We mustn't hurt Jane or Johnny's self-esteem either!
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  • Chris Halliday wrote...
    Derrol
    August 2, 2012 4:50 am
    I don't believe the Bible has anything to do with the word of God. If there was a book of God, or Jesus, it would hold a whole lot more weight for me. God just is and that's enough for me. It's that simple. If the crackpots who wrote it were around today they would be deemed insane by most people including the various church leaders. The problem with education today is it's made more difficult to learn due to the increased amount of information that is overwhelming our youth. There was no where near the amount of information available at a moment's notice when I was a kid. But kids are pushed harder and harder to retain it all. If things were made a lot more simple, more kids could actually retain subject matter at the same pace that was expected of our older generations. Stressing kids out doesn't do anyone any good.
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  • DJFavorite wrote...
    The need for algebra and even geometry
    August 2, 2012 6:32 am
    I was just talking to my 14 yr old son just the other day about the importance of algebra and geometry. (He's good at math by the way) We were talking about how much both can be used every day without even realizing it. For example, a farmer needs both to determine how much seed to buy for planting, to figure out how long it will take to harvest a crop, how many people he will need to hire to harvest that crop in time. This is just a simple example. I bet everyone can come up with an example in their own life, if they just took some time to think about it.
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  • Burn_Notice wrote...
    COMING SOON THE WEA - GIVE US MORE MATH MONEY!
    August 2, 2012 7:46 am
    Drum Roll.... Which is... how the Washington Education Association is going to spin this and demand more money for their membership! They are salivating at notion of extracting more money to better teach math for an already bloated overpaid and ineffective educational system.

    Never Forget... It's for the children. Don't you just love it when they say that???

    Nothing quite brings in the Fall season like leaves changing colors, Football and teachers marching with picket signs declaring how unfair and underpaid they are.

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