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Somebody knew shooting suspect posed a threat

May 31, 2012 @ 8:55 am (Updated: 8:58 am - 5/31/12 )

cedargrove

Yesterday, here in Seattle, we saw five people killed by a man angry he'd been kicked out of a coffee shop, and it turns out someone had an idea something like this could happen. (AP)

Yesterday, here in Seattle, we saw five people killed by a man angry he'd been kicked out of a coffee shop.

It was all caught on the security camera -- thin white guy with a beard, walks into the shop, shoots four people dead, steps over the bodies, goes downtown, shoots a 52-year-old mom to get her SUV, finally jumps out in a residential neighborhood, is spotted by police, kneels in front of someone's flower garden and shoots himself.

This morning in the Seattle Times, there's quote from the shooter's younger brother:

"It's no surprise to me this happened. We could see it coming."

Now usually when reporters talk to the neighbors after something like this, they say, "We would never have suspected! He was so quiet!"

But in this case the family said he had a history of mental-health problems that he refused to deal with, and they knew it.

Now in an ideal world, guys like this -- would be on a "NO BUY" list which every gun shop would have to check.

But absent that, there is one one other way to intercept such people.

If a family member is mentally ill, or on drugs, or in a gang -- the only practical prevention is for OTHER family members to take responsibility. Get help. At least give the guy's picture to the gun shops.

Because if you can imagine yourself ever telling the newspaper, "Yeah I knew my brother would do this some day" -- then you have to ask yourself "What am I doing to make sure that day never comes?"

I know it seems like an unfair burden, until you look at those five victims whose only mistake was where they happened to be sitting that day.

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Comments (62)


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  • pentictonpal wrote...
    Famlies TRY to take responsibility
    May 31, 2012 5:14 pm
    My sister is mentally ill and has been for 35 years. When she was first diagnosed, we tried to get her help. We were living in California and were told if she could feed and clothe herself there was little chance we could have her committed to get her the help she needed. She is quite high functioning but her life has been hell. It breaks my heart, she was my best friend. At 61 years old she is so alone and so angry. We are lucky she has never hurt anyone but every time I can’t reach my 90 year old Mom I worry. I understand that that in the past people were put in institutions because they were inconvenient, but the streets are full of mentally ill people like Ian Stawicki or Issac Zamora and even my sister who can snap at anytime. Now six more people are dead and is anything going to change? Families of mentally ill people have nowhere to turn for help. I remember waking up with my sister standing over me with knives in her hand or her terrorizing my children once when we were visiting my Mother. My Mother has always said “my daughter would never hurt anyone”. I am sure Ian and Issac’s mother’s said the same thing and now six more people are dead. Don’t forget Ian is also a victim, society let him down by making it impossible for his family to help him. How many more people have to die before we offer these people and their families help
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  • The Chuckster wrote...
    Chuck Gould
    May 31, 2012 5:36 pm
    With, by far, the best post of the day. No really!! Well done sir
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  • serzsa wrote...
    watch this KIRO report
    May 31, 2012 7:26 pm
    and decide who's to blame for this guy's deeds: http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/crime-law/seattle-shooter-had-permits-6-handguns/nPJSd/
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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    serza, nobody is to blame for the deeds except the lunatic himself....
    May 31, 2012 8:28 pm
    It's illegal to kill somebody. Obviously, fear or respect for the law didn't prevent the lunatic from killing several people.

    If it had been illegal for him to own a gun, how could anybody make a good case that the illegality would have changed his behavior?

    If he's willing to violate the law that says he shouldn't murder people, he would also be willing to violate the law that says he can't carry a handgun without a permit.

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  • serzsa wrote...
    I agree with you, Chuck,
    May 31, 2012 8:45 pm
    that ultimately he is responsible, absolutely. Why do laws exist then for various enablers to bear responsibility for something that was done solely by a particular individual? Are you to argue that the fact that he was let go on numerous occasions has not quite likely emboldened him to go even further to eventually become noticed?
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  • GrisGuy wrote...
    It is the individual...
    June 1, 2012 5:32 am
    It isn't the gun. The gun is just a tool. Many people have an irrational fear of guns. Why don't we hear this outrage from politicians when a family is murdered by a drunk driver? Where are the calls for "regulating" the use of cars? Why don't we hear talk show hosts asking why the killers family didn't do something to stop him? Oh! That's right. You have to have a license to drive a car. How many people get murdered every year by drunk drivers that have had their licenses revoked or don't have a license? It isn't the tools fault it is the fault of the user of the tool.
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  • calapete wrote...
    somebody knew?
    June 1, 2012 6:03 am
    turns out a lot of people knew, including judges and police. Why was he able to keep his guns, even though he had a record of violence?
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  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    YOU and you alone are responcible for your actions!
    June 1, 2012 6:18 am
    Rather good or bad you take the credit or blame.

    I think several have touched on this already but trying to get someone committed, even after being in custody for assault, attempted assault, hurting yourself or threats to do so to others, is legally very sticky.

    We in the FD can get someone to "Voluntarily" go to the physic ward for up to 24 hours. They may walk out at any time. INVOLUNTARY commitment is as long as 48 to 72 hours hold then they are released.

    The bottom line here folks is that we are on our own. The cops cannot be everywhere and these nuts are. Even if a headcase is arrested the courts and ACLU and every other bleeding heart Liberal organization has made it impossible to hold and try to treat these people.

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  • sportsguru wrote...
    It's me! Ha ha
    June 1, 2012 7:52 am

    "The bottom line here folks is that we are on our own. The cops cannot be everywhere and these nuts are. Even if a headcase is arrested the courts and ACLU and every other bleeding heart Liberal organization has made it impossible to hold and try to treat these people."

    I have to respectfully disagree with you on this matter, I say it was your favorite conservative republican party that allowed this to happen, It was Ronald Reagan that closed all of the mental health institutions that use to care for these mentally ill individuals in order to save money and spend it elsewhere, he gave them ssi checks and opened the insane asylum and asked US AMERICANS to live amongst them, now his actions have come to roost.

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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    HAHA, be very glad that it is difficult to hold, try, and treat somebody against their will....
    June 1, 2012 7:55 am
    This is a case where there is a conflict between public safety and basic human liberty. In the United States, we choose liberty over public safety.

    One of the problems is the potential for abuse of any system that sets a low bar for determining just who is insane, who is potentially dangerous, and who is both. Suppose that somebody posting on a forum, just like this one, assumed an anonymous identity and devoted every day to posting hateful remarks about a variety of people with whom he or she disagreed? Suppose that somebody in power constantly berated by the anonymous ranter decided that the behavior constituted "insanity"?

    In societies where people are forcibly relocated, put into concentration camps, or just hauled off to mysteriously "disappear", the excuse is always the same. It's for public safety, and to maintain civil order.

    In America, you can dare to be a (political) enemy of the state. Your right to do so is protected, as it must be, if we are going to have democratic elections and operate a functional republic. It would be too easy to declare all of your political opponents "criminals", or "insane", and history has an endless supply of examples where that, exactly, has been done.

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  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    Using yoiur logic Sp
    June 1, 2012 8:03 am
    and understanding how Conservatives are far stronger on laws and law enforcement than Liberals, then my point is proven. Like I posted, we are basically on our own in situations like this. More so than ever today!

    If the current political power was serious about laws, they would strengthen them. They haven't and they will not!

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  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    . Suppose that somebody posting on a forum, just like this one, assumed an anonymous identity and devoted every day to posting hateful remarks about a variety of people with whom he or she disagreed?
    June 1, 2012 8:08 am
    Disagreed with is the KEY word. I, like you, have the first amendment to allow me to do so.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    HaHa
    June 1, 2012 12:20 pm
    The First Amendment does NOT apply to forums like this.My Northwest can delete any post they care to delete. Its their playpen they can make the rules
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  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    messiah101 is correct.
    June 2, 2012 8:08 am
    I may not always like it but it's their "Playpen"!
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