TCTI: Too Crazy Too Ignore
 Dave Ross
AP: 74d0b97b-91ea-46d0-b505-46fa1110da34

One question...

BY Dave Ross  on October 12, 2012 @ 7:35 am (Updated: 9:08 am - 10/12/12 )

This is the one question most people wanted answered in Thursday night's Vice Presidential debate:

"Can you get unemployment to under 6 percent and how long will it take?"

Biden and Ryan were both exquisitely empathetic about unemployment, but neither one could say when the rate would drop because they know Congress is deadlocked on what to do.

But here's the shocker. The only substantial difference on the job issue was defining what's a small business. They agree on everything else. The Republican five point plan, energy independence, job training, controlling debt, export more of our stuff, don't raise taxes on small business. They agree on that. Except that Republicans define small business to include Donald Trump and certain hedge funds and Democrats don't.

On the big philosophical issue of government job creation, both sides seemed to agree that in an emergency, it's possible and even desirable for government to jump in and create jobs.

Biden: "I'm not allowed to show letters, but go to our website and he sent me two letters saying 'By the way, can you send me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of Wisconsin.' We sent millions of dollars. You know why...

Ryan: "On two occasions, we advocated for constituents who are applying for grants. That's what we do. We do that for all constituents who are..."

Biden: "I love that. I love that. This is such a bad program and he writes the Department of Revenue saying, 'the reason we need this stimulus, it will create revenue and jobs.'"

Leaving us to wonder yet again, what is it, besides just plain stubbornness, that's preventing this country's leadership from coming together on a plan that works? It must be that Joe Biden chuckles too much.

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Dave Ross, KIRO Radio Talk Show Host
Dave Ross is co-host of The Ross & Burbank Show on KIRO Radio (weekdays 9-Noon) and never too far from the spotlight.
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Comments (107)


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  • kata wrote...
    those letters
    October 12, 2012 8:10 am
    several of them were on the behalf of Unions who needed work. Was he supposed to ignore them? He won in a heavily Democrat district. The money was already being issued and somehow everyone was going to have to pay for it eventually, anyway. He's there to serve all the people in his district. That's what public servants are supposed to do. Remember that sentiment? Has it really come down to this?

    As for unemployment. It takes a long time to grow a good economy. It takes very little time to destroy one. Promising to reduce unemployment is like promising the stars. It's stupid and irresponsible. Hoping one falls to earth during your administration so you can take credit for it - silly. The Government can impose policy and hope seeds grow but that's IT. So unless the Feds are going to hire 12 million people... the answer is "no one" can promise that.

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • messiah101 wrote...
    kata
    October 12, 2012 8:42 am
    Ryan wrote the letters in them he said the money would create "revenue and jobs" yet he is another GOP CLONE who constantly attacks the Obama stimulus as well as the GM bailout.Can you explain which position is THE LIE?
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • kata wrote...
    I see it like this
    October 12, 2012 8:51 am
    The government takes money out of the system, runs it through their grist mill and then spits out services and grants. There's always head loss when it comes to running private dollars through the system. Its a bad way to grow an economy.

    But - my property taxes pay for the library - I have no choice. So I use it as often as I can. So yes, I can understand his point. The question is : Should he have denied help to his constituents who disagreed with his position? Would you have been satisfied with either position?

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • messiah101 wrote...
    Kata
    October 12, 2012 9:16 am
    So a wish for a government handout for someone in your district is OK but requesting a heath care program is not.Why don't you on the Right have the courage to stand up and say Yeah its OK as long as I get some grease also.Seems that Ryan allowed his personal believes be trumped by government stimulus money.Look I don't blame him for seeking the money for his district I feel thats his job but don't ask for it and at the same time condemn it because thats playing BOTH sides of the street
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • kata wrote...
    So...
    October 12, 2012 9:26 am
    you're saying you wouldn't be satisfied with either position, then.

    I understand Messiah, you are a solid party cheerleader. A true believer. It's ok. :)

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • logical open mind wrote...
    Dave R is wrong again. The D and R's do not agree on energy independence. Obama STOPED THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE!
    October 12, 2012 10:44 am
    The R's are for more federal drilling permits, offshore, Alaska etc. DONT U KNOW THIS DIFFERENCE DAVE-jEEZ!!!
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • messiah101 wrote...
    Logical?? No your the one thats WRONG!
    October 12, 2012 10:56 am
    Don't you understand that the Keystone Pipeline was to be used to transport Canadian oil to Texas refineries then sold on the WORLD market.So how exactly does that help US energy independence?And those off shore Drilling permits give the FOREIGN oil companies access to US taxpayer owned oil for FREE (no royalties).To be sold back to us at $4-5 a gallon.Does that sound FAIR to you?
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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Uh, messiah ???????
    October 13, 2012 5:38 am
    What does 30,000+ pipeline construction JOBS and at least 15,000 added refinery workers mean to you ?

    And energy independence is NOT gained by forcing that Canadian oil to go to foreign refineries or inspiring Canada to increase its own refinery capacity. ........ BTW - since when have we re-imported oil after it's been refined to be sold domestically ?

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Sportfisher wrote...
    Logical
    October 12, 2012 9:05 pm
    Dave is often wrong, but if he was always right, no one would read his stuff.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • maplefish wrote...
    Joe Biden
    October 12, 2012 9:23 am
    Is a rude, condescending, obnoxious, arrogant, disrespectful loudmouth, alcoholic, washed up JACKASS Politician who epitomizes exactly what is wrong with our government and especially Democrat Party. He interrupted Ryan 82 times. Laughed, grunted, snickered, mugged to the camera and proved to the WORLD how desperate he is to stay in power. He threw his own intelligence agency under the bus and LAUGHED about the Embassy disgrace in Libya! Not to mention proving to the World that he is nothing more than a cantankerous OLD JACKASS. He is an embarrassment and is not mentally fit to be the Vice President of this Country!
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    FISH,Actually that "Washed up JACKASS Politician"
    October 12, 2012 11:02 am
    Wiped the floor with Ryan.He was sharp with his attacks on the LIES that the Romney?Ryan are attempting to pass off as facts.Now if you want to discuss the FACTS of the debate go ahead but if your attempting to defend the weak appearance by Ryan by blaming Bidens demeanor you admitting Ryan flat out lost
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  • maplefish wrote...
    M101
    October 12, 2012 1:05 pm
    If you call acting like an inebriated, disrespectful loudmouth asshole who wouldn't shut the eF up long enough for Ryan to answer a question a winner, well that speaks volumes about you. The guy is insane and beyond classless. What an embarrassment!
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  • maplefish wrote...
    Biden
    October 12, 2012 1:14 pm
    Came off as the old guy in the office that thinks he's still cool ( you know, fake teeth, bad hair plugs, still thinks he's appealing to women). He's the guy that thinks he knows everything and as soon as he leaves the room everybody laughs at him. He is a BAFOON! And the fact that he is the Vice President is a friggin JOKE! He's the exact reason why this country needs term limits. Joe Biden is a first class asshole! He proved it to the world. But It doesn't surprise me one bit that you Democrats like the guy...
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  • Sportfisher wrote...
    Messiah, Ryan vs Biden
    October 12, 2012 9:33 pm
    You need to branch out and get information, other than the DNC and PMSNBC. I guess you must believe everything Biden says? When he said WE were not informed, do you understand that he was in the debate representing the White House and the State Dept and everything other dept that works under the WH??? The state dept new real time and they lied about the video being the problem. They pulled people away from the embassy, that were protecting it. Then as Ms. Lamb testified, the state dept (Lamb)denied the request for more security. Try C-span one in a while. So Biden tried to separate the WH from the state dept. You believe that crap? You believe the video was the problem? Next.... Biden was wrong. The tax rate and deduction deal was done twice before and Biden voted for it under Reagan. Look it up. 9-27-86 HR 3838. So is Biden got Alzheimers or is he a liar? TWO examples where Biden was WRONG. You don't win, when you are WRONG.
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  • Sportfisher wrote...
    messiah 101
    October 12, 2012 7:51 pm
    Do you understand the difference between spending grant type dollars to create jobs that are "temporary" hoping that the money will continue to move thru the local economy and private capital investment that creates long lasting careers and a enterprise that can resold? If private investment fails, taxpayers are not on the hook and the loss is written off against other revenue. In four years, Obama created 6 trillion in national debt. Obama pissed away the money on companies that were overseas in several cases and in the case of Solyndra, turned down by the Bush administration as a worthy investment. What you do not understand is that unions are one of the reasons that companies fail. Its the same reason that city governments are in trouble. The GM deal was a giveaway to the union.
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  • Paul Kersey wrote...
    The way Obama's cabal cooks the numbers
    October 12, 2012 8:10 am
    it should only take a week.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • messiah101 wrote...
    Paul K A WEEK??? Thats totally unacceptable
    October 12, 2012 9:20 am
    We on the Left voted for a much more efficient "CABAL" I give them 3-4 days tops and if they can't "cook the numbers" in that time we will vote in a NEW "CABAL" in 2016
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  • MO wrote...
    Kersey
    October 12, 2012 8:18 am
    Nice. I think the Obama campaign will find those jobs numbers in the trunk of some car in King County.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    "Can you get unemployment to under 6 percent and how long will it take?"
    October 12, 2012 8:24 am
    The actual unemployment number is upwards of 16 percent. Four years of Obamunism and the ObamaEconomy has produced this number.

    We will NOT see any drop in unemployment until the regime and the Dear Leader are gone!

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • messiah101 wrote...
    haha NO the official unemployment is 7.8%
    October 12, 2012 9:21 am
    I have a link that proves I'm correct do you have proof of your BOGUS number?
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    Um NO M101
    October 12, 2012 9:29 am
    Officially its 14.7% according to the U6 which counts everyone including those that quit looking, which the U3 doesnt that you spout.

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

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  • sambra27 wrote...
    well it depends on how "employed" is defined
    October 12, 2012 10:00 am

    I know BLS gives their definition. Here is the excerpt from the same link that Rick gave (which is very informative, by the way)

    "NOTE: Persons marginally attached to the labor force are those who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not currently looking for work. Persons employed part time for economic reasons are those who want and are available for full-time work but have had to settle for a part-time schedule. Updated population controls are introduced annually with the release of January data."

    So if you look at U4, the total percentage of people who are "discouraged workers", ie those who cite the economy as the reason they stopped looking for jobs, consitutes only a total of a 0.5% addition to the total unemployed. Add in those employed part time and those "marginally attached" and you get your 14.7%. But explain marginally attached - "Neither working nor looking for work but have looked for work some time in the last 12 months and are available for work". This could include stay-at-home moms. How about those in part-time work? If you are looking for a job and are hired part time because the same job is not offered full time, are you going to call yourself unemployed? I think that is up for interpretation.

    Total unemployed plus those marginally attached (including discouraged workers) is 9.3%. So of the 14.7% number that is the total unemployed plus marginally attached (inluding discouraged workers) plus part-time workers, 5.4% of that are people who are actually working. Yes it is true that the stat says "they want to work a full-time schedule", but they are actually working.

    So are the people right now who are collecting unemployment part of the 47% percent that are moochers? Are the people right now who are discouraged by the work force and no longer looking for work part of the 47% who are slackers and will never (or no longer) take responsibility for themselves? What about the stay at home moms? Quite a few of them in the world...

    I simly wish that we could now stop hearing all this BS about the fact the the number is "more like 20%" because of the people who have stopped looking for work *cough* Donald Trump *cough*. FOX News has this joker on every single one of their shows where he says this same thing every time and nobody tries to correct him. 8.3% is the number; not 20%, or 16%, or even 14.7%. It's 8.3%. FOX News also is so quick to cite the BLS as credible when the job numbers are bad, but - and this is not true for all of them - they somehow think that the BLS cooked the books when the job numbers are favorable?

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  • kata wrote...
    favorable?
    October 12, 2012 10:08 am
    depends on the lens you look through, I guess. Flip a coin for a party and the other side will take the opposite position. Even if it's 3x the amount

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/obama-twice-dismissed-bush-jobs-report-showing-gai

    What is it Joe said? Economy Feels Like a ‘Depression for Millions’ Well Joe and I can agree on that.

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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Rick W
    October 12, 2012 11:06 am
    Go to that web site and click on the U3 and you will see it the OFFICIAL Unemployment number which as I stated IS 7.8%. Thanks for Proving my position
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Rickw
    October 12, 2012 11:21 am
    The only Figure that has OFFICIAL next to it is U3 and that OFFICIAL number is 7.8%
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • maplefish wrote...
    M101
    October 12, 2012 9:49 am
    Those are the numbers we are being fed by the most corrupt administration in the History of this country. The REAL UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBER IS around 15%...
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • sambra27 wrote...
    maplefish
    October 12, 2012 10:16 am
    No, the numbers are being "fed" to us by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The same BLS that gave Bush 4.8% unemployment numbers. They were using the same tactics then as they are now.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    FISH
    October 12, 2012 11:08 am
    No the OFFICIAL unemployment rate is 7.8%.Why not prove me wrong with FACTs instead of SMOKE?
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • maplefish wrote...
    Unemployment Numbers
    October 12, 2012 1:24 pm
    DO NOT INCLUDE the Numbers of actual people who have dropped off unemployment assistance. Those people are no longer included in the BLS. Come on, I know you are not that naive...It is more like 15%
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  • Uncle Carbunkle wrote...
    Maplefish
    October 12, 2012 3:33 pm
    You are right that the numbers are larger than anybody in the Obama Admin will admit. Your 15% is the low end of the scale. Some reports cite as high as 21%. Whatever it is, remember that it took a year and a half for Obama to say: "We're going to look at jobs next month." Yeah, he really cares about the little guy.
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  • Sportfisher wrote...
    7.8 is only official until they correct it and you know what?
    October 12, 2012 9:49 pm
    California was late with their numbers. You know what kind of shape California is in? Listen, we will need a census in five years, because california is going to be a ghost State. The best thing that could happen to california is split that pig in half, so that republicans can move into the other half. If the tax increase passes in november, they are SOL.
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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Only a week or two ago, the collective left has criticizing Romney for not taking all the deductions he legally could on his 2011 income taxes.
    October 12, 2012 8:33 am
    And just why WOULDN'T Paul Ryan seek to get a few government bucks to help his constituents? ... Heck, as far as we know, those constituents could have been democrats. I don't think Paul asked them. Help is help.

    But there's small business and there's small business. ... As an independent contractor (appraiser) I am both an individual and a 'small business' And while I would appreciate any tax break the Wizard of Oz can send, I'm not about to hire anyone. Its not the nature of my small business. .. In fact, it's not the nature of say 60% of small business that there are no employees. .. And many of the rest are family operations or others that 3 or 5 others are sufficient. Even the 7-11. Just how many 8 hour shifts do you need each day?

    So it gets down to the small business that actually have hiring flexibility. And no, Dave, it's not Donald Trump. ... Except it could be Trump before he became Trump. Or Bill gates before ho became MicroSoft. .. Or a starting out Steve Jobs. .. Or...... You get the idea. .. Small business - if it's lucky - can one day be big business.

    But not if you tax the small business at the big business rate. BEFORE it is able to pay it.

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  • messiah101 wrote...
    GOPers
    October 12, 2012 8:52 am
    Don't forget Mitch McConnell he wanted $235,000,000 of those socialist/commie dollars to stimulate those Kentucky Hillbilly's that he represents.And to make thing worse it was for A GREEN project (a company wanted to produce electric vehicles in Kentucky)Good Heavens is it possible that GOP leadership might be actually believing this Global warming myth that we are being fed by those wacko Libs?
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  • Sportfisher wrote...
    Messiah
    October 12, 2012 9:58 pm
    Do you understand what a representative does? You want a grant, you write the application for the grant and you submit the application to your representative. Just like the private country club did in Seattle, in Bagdad Jims district. Patty Murray helped get over 4 million to clean up derelict gear in Puget Sound. Created 35 jobs for about a year. Oh well, back to unemployment... How much income tax came back to pay off the debt created by the stimulus?
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Ron P"and why wouldn't Paul Ryan seek to get a few government bucks"
    October 12, 2012 9:02 am
    WHY? Because the GOP constantly preaches that people should not be sucking on the government teat,thats why so why should Ryan use the power and influence of his office to facilitate people wanting a handout?You also stated "its not the nature of say 60% of small business that there are NO employees"So why should those 60% get many of the current tax breaks that they currently get and aren't you concerned that some of those cuts you currently receive will be gone if Romney is elected?
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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Messiah - a member of the House of Representatives needs actually REPRESENT constituents.
    October 12, 2012 12:38 pm
    If they asked for legally available federal funds, who would Paul Ryan be to say 'NO'?

    You're the cruel one, Messiah Grinch.

    And do you sit up at night dreaming how to miss-skew commentaries? No, few one man or woman shops get any 'special' break now - nor would they under anything Obama has proposed. That claim of keeping 'small business breaks' is just blowing smoke. ... There's nothing to loose.

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  • sambra27 wrote...
    Ron
    October 12, 2012 10:11 am

    First of all, are you a republican? It does not matter to me I just don't know if you have ever ID'ed yourself. Your posts seems to lean repub...just wanted to let you know that I think your posts are constructive and always offer good points for debate (unless we are debating the validity of the Daily Show :) )

    Here is the link to the factcheck article which talks about Ryan's point of the Obama admin taxing small business income: http://factcheck.org/2012/10/veep-debate-violations/

    I think a good debate could be how much net revenue does a company have to bring in to be considered a good job creator?

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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Sambra - you seem to like that Daily Show.
    October 12, 2012 12:43 pm
    And I'm not a member of any organized party as that tends to define you and lock you into a position - both sides.

    I suppose I'm closed GOP (or at least what it was 30 years ago) than anything else, but none of my ideas are set in stone. Even in my own mind.

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  • Cbrew wrote...
    So i discovered what's wrong with you Republicans
    October 12, 2012 8:36 am
    I went ahead and listened to Hannity the other day... I mean really listened... by the end of it, I thought to myself, now if i was stupid enough.. to actually think this man's opinion was actual news.... I would think the President is a traitor murderer anti-US thug gangster from the land of Gangsters... Now, Thankfully i'm not that stupid and i know you can't get your news from an OPINION radio show.. I get it now though, i understand where the majority of your psychotic rantings come from... I just got to say, How embarrassing for you guys... How absolutely embarrassing that you believe this guy... He sounds like a Meth addict sitting on the corner trying to convince people that the "guvament is afta me" ... I really don't know what to say... Why do you accept this stuff at all? I mean.. I support Obama right now but i refuse to watch MSNBC or a "spin" news station because it's ridiculous... Same thing on the right side, Fox news is ridiculous.. it's not facts, it's not the news, it's one big OPINION article... and the crazier they make their opinion the more of you listen... Seriously you people need help... If you believe what this Hannity guy has to say, you may legitimately be crazy and need mental help... So sad, so rediculous.
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  • maplefish wrote...
    Cbrew
    October 12, 2012 9:25 am
    You are soo deep and informed. You need to have your own TV or Radio show...On Comedy Central
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  • Realitycheck wrote...
    okay cbrew
    October 12, 2012 9:37 am
    I totally agree that no intelligent person should believe either the extreme left or extreme right media.However please enlighten me how you can come to the conclusion that Obama deserves another term.

    I mean name one thing Obama delivered on that was a benefit to the average American worker. Just name one. You can't because there isn't one.

    He allowed gas prices to go out of control which in turn affects numerous other services and product prices which then directly lower everybodies left over money after essential cost of living expenses are covered. And guess what, if we don't have the money to buy that new TV, take that trip or whatever non-essential expense it has a very severe negative effect on the economy.

    Obama said himself if he doesn't turn it around in 3 years his presidency will be a one term proposition but now he refuses to accept the consequences of his failures. And you want a man like that leading you? Really? If you do, it doesn't speak well for you my friend.

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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    Realitycheck claims "Obama allowed gas prices to go out of control"...Really?
    October 12, 2012 9:47 am
    A quick reread of the presidential powers outlined in the Constitution doesn't seem to mention anything about raising, lowering, setting, or controlling the price of anything, let alone gasoline.

    I'm glad you pointed out that gas prices are the fault and or responsibility of politicians in the US. Silly me. I thought petroleum products were an international commodity, imported and exported to a variety of countries by private enterprises depending upon relative demand and willingness to pay top dollar. I thought that was why most of the oil we drill in Alaska winds up in Japan. I thought that was why the Keystone Pipeline routing Canadian Oil to ports in the Gulf of Mexico was going to result in more exports, not more refined products for North America.

    There is *no* shortage of crude oil or refined products, so I guess you must be right. The President of the United States is simply failing to use his Constitutional power to interfere with the international free market pricing of crude oil and refined products.

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  • kata wrote...
    ermahgerd!
    October 12, 2012 10:00 am
    If only we'd known that 6 yrs ago. *s*

    Perfect example of partisan insanity? Survey says : yes.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/03/22/National-Politics/Graphics/w-obama0322.jpg

    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • messiah101 wrote...
    CG
    October 12, 2012 11:15 am
    Interesting that the US government set a cap on gas prices in 72 and 79 (Nixon and Carter)I believe the price controls extended to other products as well
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Uncle Carbunkle wrote...
    Chuck Gould
    October 12, 2012 3:55 pm
    Hey buddy, when you mau mau an industry, close down pipelines, prevent drilling on federal lands, prevent refineries from being built, you make shortages. At this point in time, the refining capacity of the US is 15% less than what is being consumed so it doesn't take much to drive prices up. Toss in EPA mandatory boutique fuel mixes and Green lawsuits and you add more stress. Obama's Secretary of Energy, Steve Chu, has publicly stated "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe." and has also stated that he has no interest in lowering gas prices. Wish granted boys and girls. So tell me Chuck, how are statements like that good for the "little guy." Don't Democrats profess to help the "little guy"?
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  • Realitycheck wrote...
    Chuck??
    October 12, 2012 7:35 pm
    Really?? He has no powers to do anything about it? What are you smoking man. You guys buy the lies hook and sinker, it is truly amazing. Obama could put and end to high gas prices tomorrow but that is not his agenda and everything else is a lie
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Uncle Carbunkle wrote...
    Cbrew/Republicans
    October 12, 2012 3:44 pm
    Hate to break it to you Cbrew, but Hannity is an *opinion* show, not a *news* show. I think what you need to do is kind get straight in your head what *news* is and what *opinion* is. I also think that if you would look a little deeper into your president, you might find out that he's closer to " . . traitor murderer anti-US thug gangster from the land of Gangsters" than he is a straight arrow. Looks like the Obama campaign is accepting millions in untraceable foreign money (Chinese and Middle East) via loadable (and untraceable) debit cards in amounts under 200 bucks. That's VERY illegal. And you keep bashing Fox Goombah. Their demographics are multiples of their closest competitor.
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  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    Speaking of the auto Bail out How is that going
    October 12, 2012 8:54 am
    http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/...10.11.2012.pdf For GM Disbursed 51.03 Billion Repaid 23.20 Billion Written off 4.34 Billion Still Owe 23.49 Chrysler Ill admit is paid off, IF you count the written off Disbursed 12.37 Billion Repaid 9.44 Billion Written off 2.93 Billion GMAC (Allay) isnt GMAC still GM Disbursed 16.29 Billion Repaid 2.54 Billion Written off 0.00 Billion Still Owe 13.75 Billion
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  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    Try this with breaks the system didnt take.
    October 12, 2012 8:55 am
    Repeated lie of it being paid back in Interest http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/...10.11.2012.pdf

    For GM

    Disbursed 51.03 Billion Repaid 23.20 Billion Written off 4.34 Billion Still Owe 23.49

    Chrysler Ill admit is paid off, IF you count the written off

    Disbursed 12.37 Billion Repaid 9.44 Billion Written off 2.93 Billion

    GMAC (Allay) isnt GMAC still GM

    Disbursed 16.29 Billion Repaid 2.54 Billion Written off 0.00 Billion Still Owe 13.75 Billion

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  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    Can we get a reply system
    October 12, 2012 8:56 am
    that actually works
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  • kata wrote...
    ha!
    October 12, 2012 8:57 am
    now you have to figure out how to close the bold. Yep the comment system sucks.
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  • kata wrote...
    nvm
    October 12, 2012 8:58 am
    I managed it :)
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  • Rick (4) wrote...
    test
    October 13, 2012 7:59 am
    test
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  • Rick (4) wrote...
    test2
    October 13, 2012 8:00 am
    test2
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Rick W
    October 12, 2012 9:26 am
    How about giving us the numbers if the auto industry in the USA had been allowed to go under so we can compare if the bailout was in fact a bargain for the taxpayer
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  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    How about if they just filed Chapter 11
    October 12, 2012 9:34 am
    Like United and American and several other companies have done and came out just fine.

    Ask Delphi employees how the bail out worked for them.

    How about the bailout was more about saving the Union then saving the company.

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  • messiah101 wrote...
    RickW Chapter 11 was not an option
    October 12, 2012 11:43 am
    We had the Banks and Housing industry collapsing at the same time do you really believe the Country could have survived the Collapse of GM and Chrysler and the 3 million jobs that would have been eliminated at the same time without some type of cost to the nation?GM and Chrysler would have been sold by the debtors and the US auto industry may never have recovered.Do you feel the risk of that happening was worth having them go BK?Your figures show me that the BOTH GM and Crysler have done a great job in a short time in repaying the LOAN almost 50% in less then 4 years
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  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    M101
    October 12, 2012 12:27 pm
    Then why didn't they bail out United Or American, Or how about Delphi that they drove under and everyone lost their Pension including those already retired. Why pick and Choose, why not bail out every company going for Bankruptcy.

    As far As the Bank Bally Who why not ask Frank and Dodd about that. Ask Franks Boy friend at Freddy Mac. How about the D's during the Clinton admin through Freddy and Fannie forcing banks to make loans to people that shouldn't get them, and then allowing banks to trade them like commodities and then shafting the people of America with the bill saying they were too big to fail. Then the CEO and boards laughing their bottoms off taking that money and issuing huge bonuses for bilking the American people out of billions.

    Until you and everyone else R and D realize we are being duped we are going in the dumper. OBAMA has allowed the debt from GII that was the free spending progressive along with the Democratic controlled congress and senate sent us up the river has now taken his debt and sent it through the roof. And now wants to spend more.

    How about Obamas 800 Billion dollar jobs program guaranteed to drop unemployment to 5%. No jobs and No drop. All the money went to his cronies.

    What about the promise to drop the debt in 1/2 or he was a 1 term president

    How about his transparency and no special interests. How about 200 of his supporters now with government jobs.

    Remember you Have to pass it to see whats in it

    I'm not going to vote for Romney either, but until we wake up we are going down the hill in a lead sled with a granite wall awaiting at the bottom.

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  • Uncle Carbunkle wrote...
    Rick W7PSK Chapter 11
    October 12, 2012 4:02 pm
    Your wasting your breath on Messiah101. He doesn't understand what Chapter 11 means. He's been listening to liberal liars. For the record Messiah, Chapter 11 is a *reorganization*. Generally nobody loses their jobs. Companies go chapter 11 every day and then come out of it months later. You need to get educated and stop listening to liberals.
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  • William Lawn wrote...
    but they need financing, uncle
    October 12, 2012 6:01 pm
    and the credit markets were locked up tighter than Rush's anal zits when GM declared.

    There wasn't money available.

    Toyota and Honda supported it.

    Willard supported it!!!!!!! (only when he was campaigning in Michigan).

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  • Sportfisher wrote...
    Lawn........ financing
    October 12, 2012 10:23 pm
    Do you know how many billions of dollars Buffet put into Goldman? The govt backed the loans to Chrysler in the 80's. They back the school loans and do we need to bring up fannie and freddie? No money??????????????????????? HA!
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  • Sportfisher wrote...
    Messiah Auto industry going under is your assumption
    October 12, 2012 10:14 pm
    AND its Bidens LIE. Why are you so gullible? Romneys Dad ran a car company. Going thru bankruptcy does not mean selling off the assets piecemeal and throwing everyone out of work. Its a reorganization and it was begun under Bush and completed under Obama. It still went thru Bankruptcy, dude. What a dope.
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  • anotherfencewalker wrote...
    Ha Ha...
    October 12, 2012 9:04 am
    If you can set aside your childish name calling for just a sentence or two, would you provide the specific data as where your 16 percent figure is coming from? I'll wait.
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  • Realitycheck wrote...
    Really anotherfencewalker?
    October 12, 2012 9:23 am
    The government themselves admits that it doesn't count people that are underemployed (meaning they had to take something but hardly can live on the earnings) or those that stopped looking out of frustration and now collect food stamps, welfare. It is a highly flawed system to make the government in power look better. Take a look around, almost every middle class neighborhood has foreclosed houses (because banks are still scre__wing us over and not helping many house owners). To say we are moving in the right direction is the lie of the century. So if it is 12, 14 or 16% percent really doesn't matter much but it certainly isn't anywhere as reported by the government.
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  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    Another
    October 12, 2012 9:24 am
    its actually 14.7% - U6 which counts all unemployed including those that quit looking, rather than the U3 which doesn't.

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

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  • Uncle Carbunkle wrote...
    Rick W7PSK Another
    October 12, 2012 4:08 pm
    The latest numbers didn't take into account a big "mystery" state (BLS isn't saying) that didn't report. So the 14% is probably low.
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  • Sportfisher wrote...
    Google U6
    October 12, 2012 10:26 pm
    Pick the link that says BLS and it probably says graph or Chart A15
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  • FreeRange wrote...
    All I have to say..
    October 12, 2012 9:10 am
    If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet. New American Standard Bible
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  • maplefish wrote...
    FreeRange
    October 12, 2012 9:28 am
    Perfect....!
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  • CH wrote...
    provide the specific data as where your 16 percent figure is coming from? . . . .
    October 12, 2012 9:16 am
    when she bends over you will see. He he It's Me me!
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  • Rick W7PSK wrote...
    CH
    October 12, 2012 9:25 am
    Once again you really shouldn't reply when your not informed (and reading the DU doesn't count).

    While I admit he over stated 16% the actual number of unemployed is 14.7%. As stated by the U6 of the BLS.gov website

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

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