TCTI: Too Crazy Too Ignore
 Dave Ross
AP: c9cb7864-ba90-4cec-8968-47b3eeafca18
Senate Judiciary Committee member Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., points to a chart as he speaks on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, Jan. 30, 2013, during the committee's hearing. Supporters and opponents of stricter gun control measures face off at a hearing on what lawmakers should do to curb gun violence in the wake of last month's shooting rampage in Newtown, Ct., that killed 20 schoolchildren. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

The gun debate makes some progress

BY Dave Ross  on January 31, 2013 @ 5:54 am (Updated: 6:05 am - 1/31/13 )

Originally it was a Founding Fathers argument: that an armed citizenry is the only sure protection against an out-of-control government.

That has never stopped the government, by the way, from putting down the various armed rebellions that have broken out during our history, including a pretty big one in 1861, but that was in fact what the founders believed, and it's become a big part of our national psychology.

And actually, considering how many people believe the Founding Fathers argument, I'm surprised America isn't more heavily armed than it is. If the idea is to prevent tyranny, you could argue the citizenry should be able to match the army - gun for gun, grenade launcher for grenade launcher. Drone for drone.

It's remarkable that the gun lobby has pretty much conceded that we only have a right to own guns, nothing more.

But now - look at the other argument that's taking center stage. Even as the NRA called for putting armed cops in every school, Senator Lindsey Graham was warning police departments to expect LESS federal money for cops, not more, and then went on to say that because it might take longer to get a cop, well, that's why he himself has an AR-15.

"I would be better off protecting my business or my family if there was a law and order break down in my community - people roaming around my neighborhood - to have the AR-15 and I don't think that makes me an unreasonable person."

Right - So that when a weakened government lets the social order break down, he can protect his family. Which is the exact opposite - of the original argument!

So I guess the way this would work is, we the citizenry arm ourselves to fend off the government when it gets too strong, and then, once we've emasculated the tyrants, we turn the guns on each other to protect ourselves from the social collapse that follows.

Either way, we are going to need a lot of guns.

Apparently , somewhere along the line, we became Libya.

Dave Ross, KIRO Radio Talk Show Host
Dave Ross is co-host of The Ross & Burbank Show on KIRO Radio (weekdays 9-Noon) and never too far from the spotlight.
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Comments (105)


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  • Paul Kersey wrote...
    you may stumble upon the truth yet
    January 31, 2013 5:26 am
    you are getting closer. Tyranny through anarchy is an Alinskyite tactic. Anarchy and tyranny may be polar opposites on the political spectrum but leftist tyranny can be achieved through radical libertarian anarchy. There are many clues that this is the method they intend to inflict upon us. Sanctuary cities, open borders, Fast and Furious are among those clues.
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  • SeattleD wrote...
    I knew it
    January 31, 2013 6:22 am
    Rand Paul is trying to turn the U.S. into a leftist tyranny. It all makes sense now.
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  • logical open mind wrote...
    Dave r writes these dumb blogs to provoke. He cant be this simplistic.
    January 31, 2013 12:37 pm
    It's the old trick of shock jock gets reactions where logical and common sense looses ratings.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Paul K
    January 31, 2013 7:06 am
    Take a little time and check the Sanctuary Cities in the USA.THere are Lots of them in FACT UTAH a FIRM GOP is a Sanctuary STATE and if you put 2+2 together you might conclude why some cities as well as an entire State becomes a place of Sanctuary,It may be because they need those illegals to keep their economies moving
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  • cigarfan wrote...
    @Kersey
    January 31, 2013 12:01 pm
    I would like to smoke whatever you're smoking. I've read Alinsky also...didn't read that part. Probably some Levin-ism (conservative attorney paid to confuse simpletons on AM radio).
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  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    No US President ever mentioned using Predator Drones on US Citizens.
    January 31, 2013 5:34 am
    Even in jest.

    Now your Dear Leader, on the other hand has made such a comment.

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  • mobeta wrote...
    It's coming!
    January 31, 2013 6:58 am
    Wait until all heck breaks loose! Coming to a big city near you.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • Paul Kersey wrote...
    They would like us to become like Mexico
    January 31, 2013 5:38 am
    unarmed and defenseless citizens at the mercy of a tyrannical government in partnership with criminal cartels. The perfect blend of anarchy and tyranny.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Paul K
    January 31, 2013 7:16 am
    Mexico UnArmed? Are you kidding me?Mexico is lacking in lots of things (I have been there often have you?)but certainly a LACK of weapons is not anywhere near the top of the list.THose "criminal cartels" you refer to are funded by US Dollars not from the US governments but by the users of the products that flow out of Mexico Thank Heavens States like Colorado and Washington who's voters actually passed measures to lessen the flow of Cartel product
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  • Paul Kersey wrote...
    messy
    January 31, 2013 7:41 am
    Mexico has some of the most restrictive gun laws on the planet. Try taking a gun with you on your next trip...please. Then get back to us....and it is not the gringos' fault that it is has one of the most corrupt governments in the world. If Colorado and Washington have any impact in reducing cartel profits (unlikely) it will only cause them to move more heavily into their other businesses, such as kidnapping and extortion.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Paul K
    January 31, 2013 8:58 am
    Sorry Paul but I have known plenty of folks who hunt birds down in Los Mochis EVERY year.They do need to tell the Mexican authority's what types of guns they are bringing in to Mexico as well as get a permit to transport those guns.The guns can't exceed 38 cal for pistols.You needthe permit BEFORE entering Mexico because if you enter without the permit and then attempt to apply you have already broken the law. Get your FACTs straight for a change Paul K as your credibility is about ZERO on most topics you reply to
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  • Paul Kersey wrote...
    ahh...the imaginary bird hunters of Los Mochis
    February 1, 2013 5:00 am
    since you speak of them in past tense, I assume they ended up in a barrel of "stew".
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  • daveismenotyou wrote...
    Can you post something different for once?
    January 31, 2013 5:45 am
    At least change up your freaking posts a little Dave. It is getting really tired.
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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Aside from my still wanting a Chinook Helicopter
    January 31, 2013 5:48 am
    The Constitution never guaranteed success fighting the federal government. // Heck, had is not been for Ben Franklyn convincing the French to help, George Washington, and company, would never have successful against the Brits.

    But leave it to you, Dave, to mix up the meaning of and the need for the Second Amendment. Be it tyranny of the State or tyranny by individuals, the reason for the Second Amendment is protection of the citizenry. ... A kid with a double clip (yes, you CAN duct tape them together)can kill you just as quick as a jack boot fed. And the police will not necessarily protect you from either.

    Think about it, Dave. Nowhere in the Bill of Rights do I see anything affording us the right of police protection.

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  • DesertRez wrote...
    Katrina
    January 31, 2013 5:51 am
    Yes Dave, just like after Katrina where the kops were looting Wal-Mart, you can use a firearm to protect your property and family. I know it's a crazy idea.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Desert Rez
    January 31, 2013 7:20 am
    You mean you would KILL someone over stealing your TV?You value stuff that you can replace over a human life which you can't.Hey I would be highly pissed if someone stole my stuff but I certainly would not kill them. Sorry Rez but your priorities are way off kilter
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  • DesertRez wrote...
    I don't get you liberals
    January 31, 2013 8:45 am
    You abort 50 millions "fetuses" a year yet one human life is precious? You don't believe in god so we are all just smart hairless monkeys, right? so yes my TV is worth more than one thieving hairless monkey. Heck my new 55" is worth three monkeys.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    DesertRez We have covered this ground before
    January 31, 2013 9:05 am
    The stuff aborted is NOT living its simply skin and bone with no ability to live (that comes later).Now I stated that I don't believe you believe these pieces of skin and bone have life either or you would be actually doing something about 50,000,000 lives being taken every year.Desert rez your a mountain of BS tied up in Bow of Malarkey
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  • BikeNazi wrote...
    What color is the monkey?
    January 31, 2013 11:27 am
    This is important to know.
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  • cw1997 wrote...
    Anarchy
    January 31, 2013 7:20 am
    Regarding how quickly chaos took place in New Orleans, about 20 minuets, go read Baghdad On The Bayou...talks about how it all went to HELL and very quickly. Written by a New York Liberal as I recall. Read the book Dave....The "Cops" left, looted, it all went to HELL. We had friends who were protecting their homes with shotguns....think about it Dave and Luke.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    cw1997
    January 31, 2013 9:20 am
    Do books written by LIBERALS hold more credibility to you or Less? You need only read the first sentence of Bagdad on the Bayou ("You don't need to go to Bagdad to see what happens when the government loses its monopoly on force")to see the importance that government ALWAYs has the ability to out gun these idiot militias in this country or the individual fools who believe that having a basement full of guns and ammo will enable them to stop the 101st Airbourne from coming to his home and taken him away dead or alive.REmember if you have a 100 members in your little milita group the US Marines have 10s of THOUSANDS of actual COMBAT troops to take you down.
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  • Jason wrote...
    To protect us from
    January 31, 2013 6:17 am
    the government. That was the reasoning behind the 2nd amendment. Had that amendment not been there to government would/could do more harm to its citizens without the ability of the citizens to protect themselves. There is a video from the 94 senate hearings running around where a victims family member actual said that to the senate. The 2nd amendment is there to protect us from you (the government). Per a 2005 Supreme Court ruling there is no right to police protection. Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
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  • RonJ wrote...
    Jason
    January 31, 2013 10:07 am
    you are so correct. The Supreme has ruled multiple times that the police have no constitutional duty to protect an individual. Didn't it take the police something like 20 minutes to arrive on scene at Sandy Hook?
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  • doublej wrote...
    Wonder what it would take
    January 31, 2013 6:18 am
    for Dave to change his mind, if that's even possible. Imagine that we have the earthquake they've been predicting for year. A big 9.0. It tears down Seattle. Law and order are nowhere to be seen because, well, they're people and need to watch out for their own families. Now, lets move our attention to Dave's neighborhood where, for 3 days and nights after the quake, armed thugs have looted, pillaged, raped, and murdered the nice people in that posh neighborhood. Is it possible Dave would change his mind on guns and personal protection after looking around and finding his wife raped, no food or water because it was stolen from him, and no hope in sight because the social structure and law and order has broken down? Think this can't happen Dave? This was reality during Katrina and, very easily could be reality here.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    doublej
    January 31, 2013 7:30 am
    I bet yo have a cellar full of food and a garage full of guns and ammo.Its idiots like you I fear as you will be the folks that the thugs take the guns from after they have raped you and your women.Hey a airplane JUST MAY fall on your house so I suggest you re enforce your roof.By the way citizens of New Orleans have plenty of GUNS (check the murder rate down there) but the looting still happened.I would venture a guess that those thugs who already had no weapon found them in vacated homes
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  • kato1967 wrote...
    not gonna happen
    January 31, 2013 7:33 am
    I have plenty of bullets for any thugs that come my way. It's unarmed dolts like you that will be victimized by the thugs who are ALREADY ARMED. Nitwit.
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  • doublej wrote...
    I'm with you
    January 31, 2013 8:02 am
    I have no worries. I have what I need in stash too. I was calling out Dave.
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  • doublej wrote...
    I can't believe how wonderfully on point you are
    January 31, 2013 8:07 am
    You truely do know everything, don't you?
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  • circuitfr wrote...
    wow messiah
    January 31, 2013 8:28 am
    Your scared of someone who is prepared to take care of his family and feed them? You are so screwed when you can't buy your tofu at safeway.....You no how long it would take for the shelves to be bare after a major disaster? Oh, less than 24 hours and most families have less than 3 DAYS worth of food in their house and NO water stored. Wow, I'm glad your scared of us evil people.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    circuitfr
    January 31, 2013 9:31 am
    The Mormons are making FORTUNES selling these 1 year (or more) food stashes to you idiot Milita types. My advice is you learn some farming and grow your own because 1 year goes by real fast.And how do you know if the government has perhaps put something in that food supply when it was manufactured. My sources tell me that eating that stuff makes you sterile and after eating it a week you subscribe to the NY Times and Start watching MSNBC.Just kidding about the Times and MSNBC but not about the sterilization
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  • circuitfr wrote...
    umm....
    January 31, 2013 10:09 am
    I do have a garden and cows....works great..but you still need staples. I'm not crazy, but I store a modest amount of freeze dried foods, some larger quantities of rice, flout, non perishables...It's common sense...at least I can feed my family for more than 2 days and have some self-sufficiency...
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  • Mavila wrote...
    Nice Straw Man, Dave.
    January 31, 2013 6:50 am
    If I understand your argument, such as it is, the Founders authorized only the use of personal firearms to protect the state from a tyrannical federal government and the people were forbidden to otherwise pick up their guns to protect their lives and property from criminals. That silly parsing defies over 200 years of US legal jurisprudence.
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  • mobeta wrote...
    For once I can agree with Dave a bit. That's shocking in itself!
    January 31, 2013 6:57 am
    Once the government can't pay it's promises which is right around the corner, then you will see a collapse of not only the economy but in civility as we know it and all heck is going to break out just like Europe. Guns are being bought at record at a record pace along with ammo. Why? People trust the government? The exact opposite is happening and i can tell you, Americans are arming up BIG TIME! Just wait until obummercare kicks in. No one will be able to afford it. My rates went from $660 a month to $1900 in 2 years all by design so I can't pay them. Then everyone will go to the single payer system that will ruin healthcare as we know it. My doctor told me that it will drive small doctors out of business and so there is more people on the dole and less doctors. How does this work? By delaying care for months or years. The next 4 years are going to be very interesting and I hope we have some as-semblance of a nation left.
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