TCTI: Too Crazy Too Ignore
 Dave Ross

The trench warfare continues

May 4, 2012 @ 9:38 am (Updated: 7:39 am - 5/6/12 )

A listener sent me a video of Dan Savage, who started the anti bullying "It Gets Better"campaign, delivering a blunt speech to high school journalists at a convention in Seattle that the Bible's teaching on homosexuality is BS:

"We can learn to ignore the bull**** in the Bible about gay people," said Savage.

Just as we ignore all that slavery stuff:

"The shortest book in the new testament is a letter from Paul to a Christian slave owner about owning his Christian slave," said Savage.

Those footsteps you heard were Christian students walking out. And Savage ridiculed them:

"How pansy-*** some people react when you push back," said Savage.

Conservatives circulated the video as evidence that an opponent of gay bullying engaging in anti Christian bullying.

So...Savage's supporters quickly pointed to a video of a conservative North Carolina pastor by the name of Sean Harris:

Who recently shared a few parenting tips with his flock:

"Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist," said Harris. "And when your daughter starts acting to butch, you rein her in. You can play sports, but sometimes you're going to act like a girl, and walk like a girl, talk like a girl, and smell like a girl. That means you're going to be beautiful, you're going to be attractive, you're going to dress yourself up."

You see what's going on. On this issue, like so many others, every body's trying to rise above the noise. And when everyone tries to rise above the noise -- the result is louder noise.

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  • ron prevost wrote...
    This has GOT to be Luke's post, or there is no hope left for Dave
    May 6, 2012 7:09 am
    Regardless of this Savage idiot being your friend, Luke, he is a far worse bigot and is far more close minded than anyone he may rail against. .. Secular humanism IS a religion. Just leaves and god out of the equation. But just as dogmatic, if not more so, than the worst. ..... In a weird way, Savage reminds me of that 'preacher' who shows up at funerals railing that God hates gays. Apparently HE believes that junk, too. Hence, gays should hate God ? .............. Hate speech is hate speech is hate speech. Regardless of the speaker. ... And as Savage has learned nothing about bullies, he fails to see that THEY are the ones insecure and full of hate. Try a mirror Dan - and Luke.
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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    Bullying discussion should be divorced from religion and politics...
    May 6, 2012 7:30 am
    Savage screwed up by accepting an opportunity to address bullying and turning it into an anti-religion rant.

    We live in a time when fewer people have the communication skills to advocate for their religious or political viewpoint without resorting to hate-speech and bullying. As a result, trying to mix a discussion about bullying with the expression of a religious or political viewpoint will almost certainly inspire a hostile response, often with substantive charges of hypocrisy.

    Savages criticizes the Bible because (in certain hands) it is often used as a means with which to criticize and minimize other people. However, Savage himself uses the same Bible as an excuse to criticize and minimize others who read the Bible on a literal plane and believe every word to be absolute truth (in or out of context).

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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Ah - by calling Savage an idiot, I bit his trap.
    May 6, 2012 7:49 am
    Very good, CG, YOUR post avoided that. ... Perhaps Savage and others of his bent DO know what they are doing. .. If you can make yourself as obnoxious as possible, it is often hard for others NOT to respond in kind. .. Therefor, the more vicious the attacks on religion, the more unholy the responses will seem. ...... There is an old saying, that 'that would even piss off the Pope'. That's what Savage strives for. And if WE are not civil in our response - he wins.
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  • rational wrote...
    Chuck Gould
    May 6, 2012 10:21 am
    Good post. And yes, the issue isn't that you can't find others, either pastors or gays who are intolerant, the issue with Savage is he is presented as a spokesman against his own actions...he is the quintessential example of a hypocrite. And given that this isn't his first instance of intolerance and hte speech the school should be reprimanded for providing him with a platform to spout his hate, in this case targeted at students.
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  • maplefish wrote...
    The sad thing is
    May 6, 2012 9:20 am
    For Savage and most of the gay community, tolerance is a one- way street. Who in their right mind would allow this "extremist" to speak at a high school anyway?
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  • kata wrote...
    ...
    May 6, 2012 9:38 am
    Having the bully pulpit is a heady thing and he's abusing it with whatever personal pain and hatred he has. Whether he'd like to admit it or not, he's becoming thing very thing he hates. That NC pastor is really an excellent example of abuse of power. Mr. Savage is a bad choice for spokesperson.
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  • John wrote...
    I must be an idiot -
    May 6, 2012 10:17 am
    I don't see how Dan Savage's profane comments relate to some whacky pastor in Mayberry, North Carolina. That's what liberals like to do. Instead of dealing with the issue at hand --- it is no wait, we found this turd under a rock in the middle of the desert, ohh ohh look at this turd over here. Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?
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  • roomtemp wrote...
    So... How is insulting Christians advancing the gay cause?
    May 6, 2012 1:00 pm
    The guy is obviously an intolerant hate filled dbag.(irony alert)

    Find another spokesman, fast. This one is NOT doing you any favors...

    A side note to the Savage supporters bringing up some pastor in NC we've never heard of.

    Pointing out someone else's hatred or intolerance does not excuse your own.

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  • SMarti018 wrote...
    I still dont see the problem with his speach..
    May 6, 2012 1:07 pm
    Like it or not Christians as a whole demonize everything that they dont agree with. Sometimes you have to push back and fight fire with fire to prove a point when something is wrong in a society... Why people are making a big deal about this yet thousands of churches every Sunday in this country seem to think its ok to demonize, criticize, and condemn gays and anyone else who does not believe in there god? I dont have a problem with religion itself, believe in what you want, but what does bother me is hypocrites and the double standard's set forth by any person, organization, or religion. And this is a big one.
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  • rational wrote...
    SMarti018
    May 6, 2012 1:25 pm
    You are as big a hypocrite as Savage. In your bigotry you denouce all Christians in defense of Savage's bullying teens in a school event decrying bullying. You denouce hypocrites in your defense of a textbook example of hypocrisy. You might want to remove that log from your eye before you go on about the speck in another's.
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  • ron prevost wrote...
    @ not SMart...
    May 6, 2012 5:32 pm
    The problem is not with Savage making a speech - He has a perfect right to do so. But that he does NOT afford the Church - or any religious view the same right. He demonizes any and all views that go against his 'truth'. And usually with a hatred best reserved for the true evils of this world. ...... And THEN proclaims HIS tolerance and understanding. ............................ The real problem is that neither Savage, nor most who support him, recognize that they are but the flip side of what they perceive. ..... If hate is all you look for, then hate is all you will find. And hate, as war, is not healthy for human beings.
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  • William Lawn wrote...
    He could have made his point, without the profanity and insults
    May 6, 2012 2:54 pm
    He correctly pointed out there are a number of teaching in the bible that are routinely ignored today.

    Leviticus 11:10 reads, "But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you."

    I love lobster, personally.

    And don't get me started on the seed spilling.

    But Dan being Dan has to push the envelop and in doing so became the bully, himself.

    He certainly would never be my pick to address a group of high schoolers.

    It isn't like he has no history of doing this type of thing.

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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Leviticus had its reasons
    May 6, 2012 5:44 pm
    Eastern Mediterranean lobster IS detestable. So were most other shell fish as existed in the neighborhood of Israel. ... But just what this has to do with hate speech, I haven't a clue.
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  • William Lawn wrote...
    The point he was trying to make is as I have stated above.
    May 6, 2012 7:00 pm
    Don't pretend to be obtuse.

    How about Leviticus 19:27 "You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard." or Leviticus 11:8, which is discussing pigs, reads "You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you." ?

    Ranks right up there with Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

    That was Dan's point.

    And no, I will not defend the way he did it, it was insensitive and bullying. The very behaviors he was claiming to be teaching about.

    Oh, and the Mediterranean spiny lobster detestable? You've obviously never had one.

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  • ron prevost wrote...
    It's a matter of taste
    May 6, 2012 7:17 pm
    And some people like gulf coast oysters, but I find them too mushy - water's not cold enough. ... .... But, no, Savage's point seems to be that if he can find fault with SOME parts of the Bible, it ALL must be wrong. And there is where he enters into hate for the sake of hate. As you note, he does have a history of doing this kind of thing. But that should in no way excuse him or condone HIS hate speech. ......................................... And if some believers still follow Leviticus, who are you, or Dan, or I to stop them ? Most Jews of all stripes still refuse to eat pork.
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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    Leviticus, et al........
    May 6, 2012 7:59 pm
    Two of the three religions that claim to be spiritually descended from Abraham (Judaism and Islam)tend to be extremely legalistic. God gave Moses ten commandments, and the priests went to work to expand those into ten thousand (well, maybe not that many- but a lot!). The clerics had a lot of political power, the religious organization was (is) inseparable from the state.

    In a legalistic faith, the clergy are considered especially aware of the will God. Dictating whether or not one can eat shellfish, and how or whether to shave a beard, was as much an exercise in political control as it was an act of worship. The church/government could increase the rate of obedience by dictating the small details of life. It's the same thing many governments try to do today.

    The third Abrahamaic faith, Christianity, was not intended to be a legalistic faith. Jesus was constantly in trouble with the Sanhedrin for disregarding many of the minor laws in the Old Testament. He went so far as to teach the radical concept that there were really only two laws that mattered. 1) Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. 2)Love your neighbor as yourself.

    Not everybody shares that vision of Christianity, (and that's OK). A lot of Christian churches love to pick and choose from among the hundreds and hundreds of laws in the Old Testament and insist that these individual and isolated rules still apply today. To the degree that the people who support a particular sect or denomination want to follow Old Testament laws, more power to them. That's what freedom of religion is about.

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  • Rainier Gally wrote...
    Does this jabroni preacher?
    May 6, 2012 4:09 pm
    Have as much stroke with the country as Savage? Savage is elevated on Bill Mahers show, MTv, and the bullying lecture circuit. This preacher is a nobody. Never even heard of him before this post.
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  • rational wrote...
    Rainier Gally
    May 6, 2012 5:53 pm
    That's just the typical leftist "debate" style...when trying to defend the indefensible the left tries to argue that their bad actions are just fine if they can find someone else who does the same thing...or the same thing in their minds at least. The preacher dude wasn't presenting a lecture against bullying as he was bullying anyone like Savage was. So instead of admitting Savage was out of line and the students are owed an apology by both Savage and the school district for inviting a known hater like Savage Dave would rather try to justify Savage's hypocrisy and bullying by presenting some unknown pastor.
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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    Rational: It's human nature, not just the nature of "the left"
    May 6, 2012 8:04 pm
    to try to excuse bad behavior by pointing to somebody else whose behavior is (or at least is supposed to be) worse.

    State Patrol: Sir, can I see your driver's license? I clocked you doing 75 in in a 60.

    Driver: Yeah? Well what about the guy still who blew by me like I was standing still? Why did you stop me, and not him?

    Just one of 100's of illustrations of this type of "moral relativity" that has nothing to do with politics at all.

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  • rational wrote...
    Chuck Gould
    May 6, 2012 8:48 pm
    CG, you're correct that there is something in human nature that leads to dodging responsiblity and shifting blame, and that is, as you say, cross-political. But I am firmly convinced from years and years of discussing and debating more topics than I can count and it is a very frequent tactic for the left to avoid dealing with the current subject by pointing to someone else.

    Look, for example at Obama...instead of admitting he's scrwed up it's always someone else's fault...and it's not just Obama...the left has blamed Bush so much for everything (including actions of the left!) that it's become a punchline. And Obama seems to think he's the only president who has ever had to deal with difficult events, he refers to them as "headwinds". I swear that if he thought he could get away with it he'd ask for a 3rd term to make up for the first that had "headwind" difficulties. Bush never whined like Obama does about "headwinds" and he had 9/11, Katrina and a collapse in the housing market thrown his way.

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  • HPD 5-0 wrote...
    "Trench" warfare?...like calling a perveted sexual act a "Sontorum"?
    May 6, 2012 7:34 pm
    Only the left resorts to such degradation, disrespect and ignorance. It's so bad...it's hateful.
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