TCTI: Too Crazy Too Ignore
 Dave Ross

Ready for another debt fight?

May 18, 2012 @ 9:09 am (Updated: 7:10 am - 5/20/12 )

A number of Republicans, including Speaker John Boehner are now talking about starting ANOTHER debt ceiling debate:

"People are looking at me like you're going to bludgeon someone. All I'm suggesting is it is time for us to talk about this."

And candidate Romney agrees -- because otherwise:

"We will find ourself becoming Greece somewhere down the road."

But how to send a message that this time it's serious. That this time the Republicans mean it?

Just to brainstorm here, what about doing what Mr. Romney recommended back in 2008 when General Motors was getting that controversial bail-out?

"I know there's a frequent thought that when you hear the word bankruptcy that means going out of business. Just the opposite is what I'm calling for. Help them get rid of the excess costs so they can stay in business," said Romney.

What about national bankruptcy? And before everybody overreacts, as Romney explained in the GM case, that DOESN'T mean the nation would shut down.

"Get rid of the excess labor costs. The excess retiree costs. The retiree costs," said Romney.

You could start from zero. Reorganize the military, reorganize pensions, reorganize Social Security.

Instead burdening our children, our children can support us in our old age by writing us checks directly.

Instead of cutting the military 10 per cent, cut itself in half, and let our allies defend themselves. Let the oil industry defend its own shipping lanes.

Instead of insuring banks and their dumb investment decision, DEPOSITOR beware. If the bank gamble with our savings and loses -- well, that's why you always keep little gold in the basement.

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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    http://usdebtclock.org/
    May 20, 2012 12:41 pm
    This mess is entirely Obama's fault! Here's why:

    We have to borrow the money to do any spending that exceeds our income. Just like any individual, business, or family- if we're going to spend more than we take in we need to borrow the difference.

    Tax receipts for the US govt, year to date, $2.2 trillion. To make math easy, let's call that 2,200 billion.

    Obama should never have invented Medicare and Medicaid! Out of the 2,200 billion that comes in, we send 829 billion right back out the door to take care of the medical bills for folks over 65 years of age, as well as some the medical expenses of the indigent. What was Obama thinking? He should have known the taxpayers couldn't possibly fund the medical expenses of the oldest and poorest among us.

    Obama should never have continued the Bush policies in Iraq and Afghanistan! Of the 1,371 billion left after paying the medical bills for retirees, we shell out almost as much again, ($692 billion), to defend the country and prosecute foreign wars. Worse yet, Obama actually *admitted* that this money was being spent! His predecessor ran these wars off the books, using "emergency appropriations." Obviously, Obama has no head for business and needs to be replaced by somebody who does.

    Obama needs to tell people holding US notes and treasury bills to go scaharew themselves! Out of the $679-billion that we have left after funding the military and paying the medical bills for retirees, we spend 225-billion paying interest on the national debt. Clearly, we can no longer afford that.

    Obama needs to change the rules on people who retired several years ago, are drawing federal pensions, and who are too old to go back to work! Out of the 454-billion left after we pay the interest on the debt, fund the military, and pay the medical bills of retirees, we shell out nearly half ($213-billion) to pay benefits to federal pensioners. Heck with 'em. Put granny and gramps back in harness! There must be a McDonalds someplace that needs a couple of fry cooks.

    So, after we pay federal pensions, the interest on the debt, pay medical bills for retirees, and fund the military we have a walloping $241-billion with which to run the entire US government. But, oh-look! Social Security is another $742-billion per year- and while there is supposedly a trust fund to cover that expense it has been broke for years and the cash needs to come from current receipts. Yup, that tears it! Obama should never have borrowed all that money from the Social Security Trust Fund to pay for the war in Viet Nam! Obama should not have raided the Social Security Trust fund when he was president back in the 70's, 80's, 90', and 00's. It's clearly all Obama's fault. Any idiot can see that.

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  • roomtemp wrote...
    @Chuck...
    May 20, 2012 12:59 pm
    That was a pretty wordy way of pointing and saying 'See, he did it too!'

    Does it excuse the behavior? Not so much...

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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    temp: Of course it doesn't "excuse the behavior"....
    May 20, 2012 1:17 pm
    but it puts the problem into perspective.

    We're screwed, big time, before Obama spends a discretionary dime. If they wheel his butt out of the oval office and wheel in Romney instead, none of the numbers will change. We will still be committed to more costs for Medicare, Social Security, Defense, Interest on the Debt, and Federal Pensions than we collect in taxes.

    We would be going into the hole, rapidly and at an accelerating rate, even *if* we shut the entire US government down (except for defense, entitlements, and interest).

    We have a financial emergency, right now, in this country. Unfortunately, a lot of sheeple will be led to believe that changing the guy in the suit behind the presidential desk is going to have a major impact. That belief will distract us from doing anything constructive about our fiscal bloodbath.

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  • roomtemp wrote...
    @Chuck...
    May 20, 2012 2:28 pm
    100% Agreement...

    I knew what you meant. And you were right to put the actual numbers out there.

    Doesn't mean I won't pet your cat backwards once in a while though... hehehe

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  • rational wrote...
    Chuck Gould
    May 20, 2012 2:27 pm
    Obama needs to tell people holding US notes and treasury bills to go scaharew themselves! Out of the $679-billion that we have left after funding the military and paying the medical bills for retirees, we spend 225-billion paying interest on the national debt. Clearly, we can no longer afford that.

    Actually, Obama is telling those folks holding US notes and T-bills to screw themselves through his policies. You are correct, military and entitelments take up the majority of the "budget" and interest is unsustainable...so Obama's solution is to increase the debt so that interest is even MORE unsustainable, and to cap that he's presided over a downgrading of the US credit rating (and don't think for a second that it won't happen again given Obama's policies), which just means that interest payment is going to grow both from interest rate as well as bloating of the deficit.

    You are correct that the stealing of the SS trust fund wasn't under Obama...so does that mean he doesn't have to deal with what was done before? We can't have a president that refuses to face reality because he expected some sort of perfect set of conditions for his presidency and every "headwind" can be ignored because it's not his fault. That's asinine and childish.

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  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    Hey Dave R.
    May 20, 2012 1:18 pm
    Do you not think that for ONE SECOND the Republicans are doing EXACTLY what we Americans sent them there to do? To counter the Dear Leaders out of control spending for the remaining 7 months of his regime?
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  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    Here you go all you mindless Obama supporters.
    May 20, 2012 1:49 pm
    "President Obama’s budget proposal, S.Con Res. 41, was introduced by Senator Sessions of Alabama in order to give the Democrats a chance to vote on the President's plan to dramatically raise spending and taxes," commented Max Pappas, FreedomWorks Vice President of Government Affairs and Public Policy. "Unsurprisingly, the Obama budget received zero votes from either party, as it is absurdly unsustainable and indefensible."

    No budget again! Your obstructionist Party of NO Liberals and your regime at it again!

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  • roomtemp wrote...
    "We will find ourself becoming Greece somewhere down the road."
    May 20, 2012 1:52 pm
    We already are, it's just a bit easier to mask it with an economy the size of ours. If you don't think the bank runs happening in Greece and Spain are going to affect us you're sadly mistaken.

    The banking cartel's answer to this will be moving the cursor all the way to the right of our account balance and setting a paperweight on the zero key. Goodbye dollar value, seeya purchasing power.

    PS Dave... The gold in your basement won't buy my seeds, tools, or supplies when (not if, we're past if) our economy crashes. People act like gold is an investment panacea but it's not. While it's true that it will probably always retain some value. The fact is, you can't eat it and you don't need it to survive. You might want to collect some more useful items.

    The logical conclusion to all of this is for regionally manipulated national currencies to be eliminated and a universal electronic system of accounts and 'credits' to be created.

    "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark"

    Good thing nobody believes that old stuff eh?...

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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Repost - you can't eat gold.
    May 20, 2012 2:59 pm
    But will you be able to grow your seeds to harvest before someone tries to steal and eat the seeds? ... It's not a lost cause yet, BUT saving civilization is not going to be for the faint of heart.
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  • roomtemp wrote...
    @Ron...
    May 20, 2012 4:13 pm
    "But will you be able to grow your seeds to harvest before someone tries to steal and eat the seeds?"

    Unfortunately, that's what the weapons are for. If they ask nicely, I'll always share what I can. I have no desire to see anybody starve. But if they try to steal it, they run the risk of becoming compost for next years crop. I pray that never happens.

    "saving civilization is not going to be for the faint of heart."

    The thing that bothers me the most is the number of people nowadays with no survival skills whatsoever. We used to be pretty tough. I see this as a marked contrast from the people around during the great depression. There's not going to be a lot of demand for .gov paper pushers, and it ain't gonna be pretty when a million welfare checks won't cash. (Heck, my own lack of self sufficiency scares the crap out of me and I have a pretty green thumb, can hunt, fish, cook, and have never met a tool I couldn't use.)

    I think in order to succeed we're going to have to think small (family and local). I can't hope to save 'civilization' but I might be able to make my miniscule corner of it a little bit better.

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  • cdbtx wrote...
    Well since the
    May 20, 2012 2:14 pm
    This administration (like the last) are unable to control their addiction - I'll ask, how do you cure the addict? You certainly don't continue to provide them the substance of their addiction.

    Here's the flaw though - recognizing the problem/addiction both by the person addicted and the enabler...

    Are you an enabler Dave, someone capable of making an honest assessment of the situation or are you part of the problem?

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  • longwayhome wrote...
    Give it up, already.
    May 20, 2012 7:18 pm
    Obama will be President until 2016. You know it, and it drives all you republicans crazy. Sweet dreams.
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  • mpgunner wrote...
    Hey Dave, Wake UP
    May 20, 2012 11:21 pm
    Your president is in "power". Your president had full "power" his first two years. Your president has amassed a debt total that makes GWB look good. So, why do you keep starting your discussions with Republicans? Or, on other shows, Palin, Mitt and so on. You try to be "objective" yet you will vote again for this proven incompetent president whose "experience" has never been vetted by the media. Obama makes Palin look smart. LOL
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  • William Lawn wrote...
    Romney and GM
    May 21, 2012 6:48 am
    1. The credit markets were locked up tight in 2008, where was the money going to come from to continue operations? GM would have been forced to liquidate.

    2. Get rid of retiree costs? Yeah, transfer them to the taxpayer permanently through the http://www.pbgc.gov/ Just like Bill's airline pension is.

    Thanks Willard

    I'll pass.

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  • mobeta wrote...
    Debt bomb!
    May 21, 2012 7:16 am
    Let's see, over 1100+ days without a budget that is against the law but who cares right? More debt piled up in the last three years than all other presdidents combined. (Bush had way too much too trying to GET ALONG with democrats which they can't) Our per person debt owed in the U.S. is $50271.31 www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ so each citizen's share of this debt is for every man, woman and child (who shouldn't count) and Obamamama wants more spending without any accountability. No budget just spend us into proverty. Print money until the dollar is worth nothing BUT with the mounting socialist countries going to go under shortly, we are right behind them. When Greece goes belly up which will be any time now and Spain defaults and the run on banks hits (it already has begun) it will transfer over here and will have devestaing consequenses for all of us. Thanks Big Governments around the world giving everything away without paying for it. Policticans make me sick on both sides of the isle. I kind of hoping this happens because I will take anything to get this imposter out of office and yes, more trouble for the US to wake people up who don't get it which is about 70% of the population who just want their hand outs. All tax and spend Rebulicans need to go, many have been purged and we are not done yet. We all are getting fleeced by all levels of government and electing any democrat will seal our fate!
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  • Anton wrote...
    For all the conservatives...
    May 21, 2012 1:43 pm
    ...who think that Obama has increased the size of government, please raise your hands... Oops, Obama actually has shrunk the size of government. He's already evened out the number of private sector jobs since he started. The only reason the job market is still lousy is because "his" economy has slashed the public (government) jobs with a vengence.

    Isn't this what the tea party wanted?

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