TCTI: Too Crazy Too Ignore
 Dave Ross
arab_protest.jpg

Why do they hate us, part two. Or is it three. Or four?

September 17, 2012 @ 8:39 am (Updated: 9:02 am - 9/17/12 )

cedargrove
Palestinian protesters burn a U.S. flag during a demonstration against an anti-Muslim film, in Gaza City, Friday, Sept. 14, 2012. Widespread anger across the Muslim world was expressed about a film produced in the U.S. which ridiculed Islam's Prophet Muhammad. (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa)

Again there's a big debate over why Muslims are burning the American flag.

But what are we really seeing? Groups of angry young men who obviously have a lot of spare time burning the American flag. And groups of angry young men with a lot of spare time committing mayhem is not a Muslim phenomenon, this is a human phenomenon.

Get enough angry young men together and there will always be something that will set them off.

It ends up being the usual malcontents, but in Muslim countries with healthy economies, sanity tends to win out.

In Jakarta, Indonesia, with a huge Muslim population, the most violent demonstrators were from the ultra-conservative Islamic Defenders Front, which usually specializes in attacking transsexuals and nightclubs.

But British reporter Aubrey Belford in Jakarta said most Muslim clerics sat this one out.

"The response from most Muslim clerics here is just to ignore it, even from some conservative and otherwise quite intolerant clerics, the idea is even if you're going to go protest, don't do it violently."

Indonesian young men have jobs to go to.

What I don't understand is why so many Americans think we can somehow control this. We've already tried nation-building in two predominantly Muslim countries and we learned two things: it's expensive and it doesn't work.

As for some other magical policy to somehow spread universal trust in the US government, polls show that we Americans don't trust the US government.

A CNN poll last year pegged trust in the federal government at 15%.

I fear that we may just have to suck it up and accept that we are not universally loved.

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Comments (69)


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  • SeattleD wrote...
    Dumney says his foreign policies will be so flawless
    September 17, 2012 8:26 am
    that should he get elected there will never again be any protests by Muslims against the U.S.
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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    D, why stoop.....
    September 17, 2012 8:34 am
    to the level where you refer to the Republican candidate as "Dumney"?

    You sure you ain't from Sequim? Some folks up that way refer to the Democrat candidate as "buckwheat" and "obongo", and simply switching the party targeted doesn't make the practice any less absurd.

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  • ron prevost wrote...
    Dave, the reasons for hate itself are unimaginable - yet clear as day. Witness the dialogs on these threads each day.
    September 17, 2012 12:08 pm
    Hate basically inspires some feeling in the human soul, usually to make oneself superior, at least in ones own mind. ... Often a reaction to perceived hate on the part of the target of our hatred.

    Why do 'THEY' hate 'US' ? ... That depends on what 'THEY' is. .. The real question is why, if given the chance, most of those shouting 'death to America' would love to move here. Certainly, talk to any immigrant from any country (legal or otherwise), and America still is the promised land.

    Dave, your observation about angry young men is probably true in almost all cases. Angry because of perceived insults. Angry because the have no jobs - or sometimes no hope. And, perhaps, angry because they CAN NOT come to America.

    Could it be they hate us because they would love to love us, but can't?

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  • Forrest wrote...
    The world hates us because we constantly butt into other people's business.
    September 17, 2012 8:40 am
    It's sort of like the over bearing aunt that every family has.
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  • maplefish wrote...
    @Forrest
    September 17, 2012 9:17 am
    Well then, we should just go home and never go back. Right? We should just ignore that entire part of the world or the entire muslim population until they blow Israel off the planet? or until they detonate a nuke in one of our cities? These are not exaggerations, this is a real possibility? That would be OK with you? Well, not me. Why is it that you liberals ( yes, YOU Forrest) insist on pretending that 9-11 never happened? What do you think would be reasonable resolution?
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  • maplefish wrote...
    Good Thing
    September 17, 2012 10:32 am
    We keep sending $$$BILLIONS of US TAX (or "foreign aid") Dollars to buy their friendship...LOL.... I don't think thats working out very well. Kinda like a bad marriage....
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  • FormerMarineSgt wrote...
    The world hates us because we constantly butt into other people's business.
    September 17, 2012 1:51 pm
    It's sort of like the over bearing aunt that every family has. --------- Nah - it's more like the never ending duel of witless idiots that seems to play out here all too frequently (except here it's not violent)
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  • Chuck Gould wrote...
    Dave says we may not be universally loved....
    September 17, 2012 8:49 am
    and if that's the case, what we really need to do is send more troops to more countries to impose American values as well as social and economic systems on the rest of the world. After all, we're so entirely superior that we're really doing these "backward" folks a favor by insisting they adopt our social standards, if not one of our mainstream religions to boot.

    "The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

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  • sportsguru wrote...
    I think what is missed in his post
    September 17, 2012 9:17 am

    Is that Americans don't even like the American Government,lol. You have the Republican Teaparty libertarian group that is hoping for a revolution so that we can go back to the way things were before civil rights.

    You have the liberals that want to incorporate every tom, dick and harry's culture into mainstream America leaving America without any foundation to build off of and/or an Identity for legal immigrants to mimmick to become Americans.

    Last but definitely not least, we have OWS who are mad and don't even know what they are mad about and/or how to communicate there needs and/or issues with how things have hampered their development.

    I think how people feel about us past our shores is irrelevant because when you have only 15% that trust there own government, that has to be the bigger problem in my own opinion.

    Pfftttt

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  • maplefish wrote...
    @sportsguru
    September 17, 2012 9:59 am
    What? "You have the Republican Teaparty libertarian group that is hoping for a revolution so that we can go back to the way things were before civil rights". COME ON? PLEASE You cannot be that shallow??? I happen to agree with the Tea Party main platform simply because they stand for FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY By our Government? Where the EF do you get taking away civil rights? You are way to smart to believe that BS? Or do you think that it's OK for this country to have it's credit rating dropped TWICE under this Admin? Or the FACT that our National DEBT is $16TRILLION??? Or the FACT that Obama has spent nearly $6 TRILLION the most in the HISTORY. GEEEEEZUS MAN. Pfffffffft right back at ya! :)
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  • sportsguru wrote...
    MapleFish
    September 17, 2012 11:39 am

    Touche!! I think you are a good dude Maplefish, so I won't take your rant personally, It always amazes me when you Republicans talk about the debt as if you really care about it,lol. Borrowing money is not new to America, as a matter of fact it's been going on for 200 years, it didn't start and will not end with Obama, that's just a weak argument and only someone not astute enough to research the truth will fall for the banana in the tailpipe trick.

    America borrowed $75 million during the Revolutionary War, thus began the first American budget deficit.

    We use to pay it back rather quickly and enjoyed several years of budget surpluses but the War of 1812 forced borrowing and once again we were back in debt—big wars tied to big deficits would be a recurring theme over the next 200 years. There’s a lot of blame thrown around these days, as Congressional leaders and President Obama struggle to reach a deal on raising the debt ceiling, to enable more borrowing, and chip away at a annual budget deficit that is over $14.5 trillion. But the tough truth is that deficits and debt are bipartisan phenomena to which almost every president, no matter their party or ideological affiliation, has contributed. The Civil War pushed the national debt into the unheard of $3 billion range; after World War I public debt was up to $25.5 billion; the New Deal and World War II resulted in one of the first sizable explosions in debt, up to $260 billion by 1950. Throw in LBJ’s Grand Society, the Vietnam War, the defense build up against the Soviet Union, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, sweeping tax cuts and a brutal recession, and we find ourselves mired in this current mess.

    As Obama and Boehner, Democrats and Republicans level blame at each other for getting us into deep deficits and not doing enough to get us out, the truth is there’s 235 years worth of blame to pass around to everyone.

    the truth is there’s 235 years worth of blame to pass around to everyone.

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  • maplefish wrote...
    @sportsguru
    September 17, 2012 1:53 pm
    OK, I like your explanation and LOL at the banana in the tailpipe joke! Also, appreciate the history lesson. All true. However, Obama had Congress and the Senate for 2 years and couldn't even pass a budget??? STill haven't because the Repulicans finaly got the majority in the house back. I agree with you wholeheartedly that both sides share responsibility for the mess, but there hasn't even been an attempt by the Obama Admin to reign in spending. The CBO stated a couple weeks ago that we would again be $1.1 TRILLION over our GDP mostly due to Obama's unrestrained discretionary spending....The debt has been there for 235 years but over the last 3 it has increased by 1/3....Thats a scary thing. I guess it reminds me of my ex wife...LOL!
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  • cdbtx wrote...
    Not sure there's any
    September 17, 2012 9:28 am
    debate by anyone asking if they hate us...digging in the history books.. and already back 2,000 years and they hated other cultures then. Actually if you go to the public library you'll find many books that describe the culture from.. let's say 1700's... hopefully they don't discover that those books are not too flattering either and begin new attacks.

    The debate that I read about seems to be about the attacks - were they as a result of the anti-islamic video or were they planned attacks...

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  • messiah101 wrote...
    Why is it common
    September 17, 2012 9:34 am
    In rural areas of our country to see young me with Confederate Flags waving from their vehicles radio antennae or displayed in some other manner? Do they hate America also?
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  • logical open mind wrote...
    messiah-do you know any rural folks?
    September 17, 2012 3:42 pm
    Why the bias torwards rural. Im rural and think that statement is so out to lunch even for you
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    logical open mind
    September 17, 2012 3:50 pm
    The bias is there because its an accurate bias. Just returned from a few days in Idaho,Montana,Utah,Colorado,Arizona and Nevada and saw lots of Redneck young folks with Confederate Flags a flying. You probably have become numb to that sort of behavior because its not a rarity where you live. By the way I don't need to know someone to ID any type of particular behavior. And I also live in a rural area
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    cdbtx
    September 17, 2012 9:37 am
    I have a question for you. Are the attacks on Muslim countries by western nations (led by the USA)planned because the west hates Muslims or because we want to steal their oil?
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  • maplefish wrote...
    Messy 101
    September 17, 2012 10:02 am
    I'm with ya on that! LETS STEAL THEIR OIL! LOL!
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  • CldWtrSrf wrote...
    They certainly don't hate us because we are "free"
    September 17, 2012 9:39 am
    Like all the talking heads will tell you. If you haven't opened your eyes lately, American isn't "Land Of The Free" anymore. We simply aren't that free. So why do they hate us? Maybe it has to do with the occupation of so many Middle East Countries? Maybe it has to do with the United States Government being occupied by criminals and banking cartels, the same reason a majority of Americans don't trust or like the Federal Government? The whole "They hate us because we are free" argument is tired and does not apply though.
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  • It's me! Ha ha! wrote...
    "Steal their oil" M-101?
    September 17, 2012 9:49 am
    How much does it cost us a barrel to "steal" their oil?
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • messiah101 wrote...
    Haha
    September 17, 2012 12:16 pm
    You miss the point haha. See the corrupt leaders of those oil producing countries allow the citizens oil to be stolen. They take the bulk of the $$$ and little goes to the people. We in the West understand this but don't care. We are partners in the crime.
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  • Qballrail wrote...
    We Are Invaders...
    September 17, 2012 9:58 am
    Their culture is so vastly different from our own. We pushed into their country to further our own causes, mainly for their oil and under the guise of "helping" them fight a tyrant. It's time to get out. We are obviously NOT welcome there. But what is really stupid is they are killing themselves with car bombs. Let them be before it's too late and Iran sends a nuke our way. I mean, think about it, we would be angry as he!! if our soil was invaded. We would fight to push them out. Their ways are not ours, we will never understand them so why even try? It's time for the American Empire to pull back like Britain did. Do it now. Before it's too late and we have a 9/11 that is a thousand times worse.
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  • Lonestar wrote...
    They don't hate us
    September 17, 2012 10:05 am
    They hate Obama. Our first Muslim president and yet he doesn't make his wife and daughters wear burqas.
    { "Thumbs Up":"1","Thumbs Down":"-1" }
  • sambra27 wrote...
    Lonestar
    September 17, 2012 10:20 am
    Really? So no American flags were ever burned while GW Bush, Clinton, GHW Bush, Carter, Reagan, Nixon, etc. were President? And take your "Obama is a Muslim" rhetoric and cram it.
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  • maplefish wrote...
    @samabra
    September 17, 2012 10:38 am
    Wow, Lonestar touched a nerve??? LOL! You do know he went to Muslim School in his early teens right? Enough with the incessant Obama apologist BS. Muslim or Not, the guy is incompetent and totally inept. He's more concerned about being on "The View" or "Entertainment Tonight" than he is about the welfare of this country. The American idol President....Ooooooo, I have a tingle up my leg.
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  • sambra27 wrote...
    ok...
    September 17, 2012 11:22 am
    I don't care about people calling him incompetent or inept as a president. I care about false rhetoric. Hate the $h!t.
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  • messiah101 wrote...
    FISH
    September 17, 2012 12:23 pm
    Hmmm,so attending a Muslim school automatically makes you a Muslim.When I was a kid I went to Catholic school for 4 years and had several Jews and Protestants as classmates because the CAtholic school was the best in town.Your logic implys that those Jews and Protestants became Catholics simply by attending.Gee I wonder if their parents understood that when they signed them up?
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  • kata wrote...
    every society occasionally needs a "them"
    September 17, 2012 10:20 am
    to unite the "us".

    The reason is nearly irrelevant if you can get enough people pissed off enough to kill and be killed. Religious zealotry is a good go-to for inciting that kind of reaction. And for that I actually will agree with this blog, for once.

    Food, clean water, a job, education and stability ...is pretty much the best way to erode (not eliminate, mind you) fanatic support. Non exploitative businesses and corporations will probably make more headway in any culture that will accept them than any government diplomacy. Its hard to incite people who have something to lose and little to gain. Desire for liberty comes from within and I think we need to be patient.

    But, I don't think we should ever stop being vigilant.

    ps. loved the troll counseling session at the top of the thread. Almost made me spray my coffee on my monitor.

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