Updated Nov 17, 2009 - 1:03 pm

Greinke and Felix, The Difference

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I think we all knew that Zack Greinke would win the Cy Young. It is hard to argue against his performance and I won't. Instead I will argue for Felix and why he could have won this award. I will also tell you why I think this award got away from him.

First of all this is so open for discussion. I believe that when you have two sides that are so close that you can cherry pick enough stats to prop up your argument. Look at some things, conveniently ignore others and you have your clear cut winner, don't you?

His first two months cost him the award. From June on he was the better pitcher. I will go so far as to say that had he not pitched in the WBC, he probably would have won the award. If he had been in camp longer and Wak and Adair could have starter their work with him sooner May might not have been the month it was for him.

Greinke was sharp out of the gates when the pitcher has the advantage giving up just 2 runs in the month of April and throwing 2 complete games. This is the difference. Felix was good that month, but not that good. May was a disaster for him but I think he could have absorbed it if Greinke had been human in the month of April.

I realize that the Cy Young award is a full season award. That said Felix finished stronger. Since June Felix has allowed less runs in one more start than Greinke. Twenty-four of his final twenty-five starts were quality starts. More importantly, since June Felix has failed to go seven innings just four times. Greinke pitched less than seven innings in ten of his twenty-three starts since June. Beyond a quality start, when Felix took the ball the bullpen took a break. And they knew they would.

Also significant but something I doubt voters will take into consideration is the fact that Greinke has not pitched in a meaningful game with regard to the post season since opening day. Felix pitched for a team that was in contention for the majority of the season. You cannot say that about the Royals.

Disappointing yes, but there is little question that Felix's performance this year would have been good enough in most. There is no question what he did for his team. Most importantly he took the final step from number one to ace and after watching him in 2008 I wasn't convinced we would ever see that. He has an incredible future in front of him and I hope when he wins that first Cy Young it is as a Mariner.

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• jimmytown wrote...

  Zack absolutely deserves it

  I love Felix- and like everyone else has been saying, any other year it should have been his, but I'm glad Zack won it because his numbers across the board clearly make him the best pitcher in the AL this year. Congrats Zack. Shannon, I hate to see you use the "meaningful game" argument - that's the rubbish Yankee/Red Sox fans use all the time and it makes me want to sit in a corner by myself and be sad. The fact that Greinke won I think preserved some of the credibility of the voters for this award. I celebrate Felix's season, but also Greinke's as well - the man has overcome a lot and it's great to see a young talent come to his own, and be enjoyed by Royals fans (who have so little to cheer about these days)!

  November 17, 2009 11:45 am

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• westdiva wrote...

  All Hail King Felix!!

  Yes I agree that because the Cy Young award is a full season award that it should go to Zach Greinke. However, and I truly do mean HOWEVER - Felix still deserves to be congratulated on his fine work, and for ending the 2009 season with a definite BANG! His final starts were high quality starts, and he is simply a phenomenal pitcher to watch in person. Sick or well, cramped or just fine King Felix would give you all he had, and then some each and every game. So I say with great pride - "...all hail King Felix, and congratulations on fantastic pitching this 2009 season!...." See you in 2010! Go M's!!!

  November 17, 2009 12:18 pm

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• Chris from Bothell wrote...

  My only concern about King Felix

  If Z and company pay him what he's worth, will he get complacent? The kind of talking-to that Wak gave him this past season worked on a young upstart with talent and attitude; I doubt that same talking-to would work on the ace of a staff with a guaranteed multi-year contract making 18-20 million a year. I don't want to finally land him only to have him pork out, or get complacent, or morph into Freddy Garcia in 2 or 3 years.

  November 17, 2009 12:50 pm

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• That westside guy wrote...

  Yes, of course if you ignore Greinke...

  Felix had a great season - but really, the only way you can give him the Cy Young is to ignore Zack Greinke's season. If you want to hold out that "pitching in meaningful games" strawman, then probably you have to give it to Sabathia instead of Felix anyway - the Mariners were out of it for the last couple months, after all. Face it, as good as Felix was, Zack was just better - better in "surface stats" like ERA, even better in the more sophisticated stats, plus Greinke didn't have the benefit of an amazing outfield defense behind him (check out the M's pitcher's ERAs last year and this year). Of course I suppose you have to give Felix some props for playing part of the season with Betancourt behind him at shortstop - that probably cost him a few ERA points...

  November 17, 2009 4:26 pm

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• shannon drayer wrote...

  Whoa!

  Folks-first of all I never said Felix should have won the award. I said he was better from June on. Meaningful games? Give me some credit here please. I would not choose a winner based just on meaningful games, if fact I would only use it in the case of a close race. I do think situations should come into play. If not, why have voting? Why not let the computer decide?

  November 17, 2009 6:32 pm

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• sunshinemari wrote...

  Felix a future Cy Young winner

  This was a close race for Cy Young. Disappointing, yes, and I agree with all you said Shannon. Felix is a survivor of the "Bavasi" regime. With so much negativity from 2008 its no wonder he started out shakey. Who knew what to expect in 2009 with new management? It turned out better than anyone expected and I fully expect Felix to shine in full glory next year now. Wak and company have established themselves as a positive force and a well oiled management team. Plus Junior's return is a bonus. Players want to be here and are happy. Attitude is everything.

  November 17, 2009 7:35 pm

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• That westside guy wrote...

  Sorry for adding a second post...

  Something just hit me - it's not really meant to be an argument, more of just an alternate take. And I'll freely admit it's all personal opinion, and there's no way I can back it up. :-) But it seems like people tend to assume pitching in "meaningful games" is somehow harder than pitching on a losing team - but is that really the case? I think I'd argue that continuing to pitch the way Greinke did, on a team that's going nowhere fast, probably takes more strength of character than pitching for a winning team. It's much easier to get fired up when you think you've got a chance to achieve a goal, and you have faith that your teammates will always give you the best chance to win possible. Losing, on the other hand, often feeds on itself with many people - and we saw that first-hand just one season ago.

  November 17, 2009 10:03 pm

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• the Right kind of thinker wrote...

  Leave the real sports reporting to Men ayy Shannon

  and by the way Felix is overated

  November 18, 2009 2:27 pm

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• CompassRosy wrote...

  What REALLY matters....

  Is getting Felix locked up long term so that he will have PLENTY more award opportunities. Zack was certainly deserving and should be very proud of the season he put together (especially considering the issues he's been dealing with in recent years). That said, this was my case for CY Felix.... http://compassrosy.blogspot.com/2009/11/case-for-cy-feilx.html

  November 18, 2009 8:43 pm

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• Derrol_o wrote...

  Greinke deserves the Cy but I'd take Felix any day

  Even after the month of April there weren't a lot of believers in Greinke if you could base it on how many people were unloading him on the "sell high" strategy in fantasy ball. It's a compelling argument that Felix deserves the Cy because of how he finished. Late in the season he was clearly the better pitcher but I agree about April being the kicker for Greinke. Strictly from a statistical standpoint he deserves the Cy because he had a better ERA, WHIP, and K/BB ratio. I also have no problem with Greinke winning it because it wasn't a biased media thing. Greinke plays in one of the league's smaller markets and the east coast/big market bias didn't come into play. Overall though I'd take Felix 7 days a week over Greinke and Felix I'm betting will win his share of Cy Young awards. And I fully agree with you Shannon, I hope he wins them as a Mariner.

  November 19, 2009 1:23 am

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