Will expanding women’s roles in the military put men at risk?

All combat unit jobs in United States military will be open to women, Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter announced Thursday.

That opens up the Marine Corps infantry, Nave SEALs, Army Special Forces and special op units to the first time in history.

But is it a good idea? KIRO Radio’s Tom Tangney and Ron Upshaw debated the landmark decision.

Tom Tangney: Of course, there are people that have serious question about his.

Ron Upshaw: Here’s the thing. Philosophically, I agree with this. Human beings are intrinsically equal. On a philosophical level, I can agree with it. When it gets into gender … to me, personally, I think it’s naive to pretend there aren’t profound differences between the sexes.

TT: Men aren’t equal to each other.

RU: Men have their inherent strengths. Women have their strengths. I feel like we’ve tried to ignore that. We need to start from a place and ask can we agree that men and women are different? Here’s what I think is going to happen: If we have men and women in combat situations, there will be young men that take unreasonable risks because they have been instilled their entire lives to protect women.

Have you been around 18-20 year old people in the military? I have. I believe that is their instinct.

TT: Chivalry died decades ago.

RU: It’s not chivalry. Not in a chivalrous way. If you go through training with a woman, you are going to become fond of that woman. It’s human nature for men to say, ‘Hey I got you.’ I’m saying that when you get under stress and adrenaline is flowing, men are going to do something different with women next to them.

TT: Even in combat?

RU: Especially in combat. That’s the reality, I believe.

TT: Men in our society are being raised differently than those in 30s and 40s and 50s. I think a lot of men see women as equal partners and might not feel so chivalrous.

RU: Could be true. You see this on aircraft carriers and ships. Romances develop. Pregnancies happen. There will be love triangles. That will happen, along with sexual assault.

TT: OK. If you’re pregnant, you won’t be put on the front lines.

RU: What happens with your dynamic if you have co-workers sleeping together? Does it change the dynamic of the group?

TT: I would think so. Yes.

RU: Do you think that will happen pretty frequently?

TT: I don’t know.

RU: On the flip side, I think there could be a lot of value. I think when you go through a traumatic situation, the presence of a woman in a combat group will be beneficial. I think they will be able to articulate what happened better. Male soldiers might be more comfortable talking to women about traumatic situations.

TT: Do you think the two women who have passed the test will put their fellow male soldiers at risk by working next to them?

RU: It will be more difficult for them to do the combat obligations than men.

TT: Why? None of us are saying we should lower the standards. The standard is the same. The idea is if they can’t carry their own, they’re not going to be accepted.

RU: It’s more difficult to carry their own. They are smaller in stature. I’m not saying they shouldn’t do it, I’m saying it’s going to be interesting to watch how it develops.

TT: One concern I have is: I’m afraid if women are captured, they will be treated worse than a captured man. But I think it’s great news for men and women and we’ll both be stronger for it.