GEE & URSULA

Former WA sheriff: Police reform requires culture change, accountability

Jun 26, 2020, 5:26 PM

Seattle protest, police reform...

Seattle police downtown Wednesday. (Nicole Jennings, KIRO Radio)

(Nicole Jennings, KIRO Radio)

Since the death of George Floyd, there has been a renewed focus on racism and the topics of police reform and accountability. Former King County Sheriff Sue Rahr is currently in charge of the training for all law enforcement in Washington state, and joined the show to discuss how changing police culture is as important as punishing bad cops.

“I think the conversation around police accountability is based on, in my opinion, a very outdated model for holding police accountable. It’s the same model on which our criminal justice system is based. It’s known as the deterrence model, and it’s probably the most common way we all know for controlling human behavior,” she said.

“It rests on the belief that the human being, or in this case, that the police officer expects punishment for misbehavior to be swift, and sure, and painful. And the belief is, if that’s the case, they will follow the rules to avoid the pain. But in order for this model to work, they also have to believe that they’ll be caught.”

Rahr says that with improved technology and the proliferation of cameras, the approach must change and refocus.

“Now that we have cameras everywhere and officers are being caught in acts of misconduct, now we have to come to grips with, ‘OK, then what do we do on the punishment side of it?’ And there’s there’s a lot of due process and collective bargaining rights that impact this,” she said.

Former Sheriff Reichert: Elected officials have ‘failed to protect law abiding citizens’

As Ursula noted, we often hear about a few bad apples. But yet those bad apples end up getting their jobs back, or it’s hard for them to get a conviction. What does the union need to do for it to change?

“A conversation about unions is really tricky because I believe that unions are necessary and they are needed, because if we don’t have unions, then we’re gonna end up with cops that are very poorly paid and don’t have the resources they need. … The cases of misconduct that we’ve seen in the last several years are very extreme examples of misconduct, and it’s pretty clear that I think everybody believes they’re wrong.”

Seattle police officer: Policing won’t survive without public approval

“I think we’re missing the boat if we only focus on the most extreme examples of misconduct, because in my experience and in my conversations with hundreds of community members, the thing that damages trust with the community the most are what I call the thousands of paper cuts, and that is disrespectful behavior between officers and people in the community,” Rahr added.

Changing police culture

So because of union rules and collective bargaining agreements, Rahr believes that relying strictly on punishment for misconduct is going to be challenging. A culture approach matters as well.

“I think we need to put more effort into focusing on improving the culture, because again, officers are human beings and they’re going to be influenced by human behavior. And humans need desperately to be accepted by their group, whatever that group is. This is intensified in law enforcement because it’s a dangerous job and you rely on your partners for your very life,” she said.

“And if an officer violates cultural norms, they’ll get caught swiftly and surely, and they will be excluded from the group, and there’s no process protections. So if we really want to change police behavior … we really need to focus a lot of energy in the culture. I’m not saying we abandon the deterrence model because we do need those rules for the extreme behavior, but we can’t focus on the rules to the exclusion of the culture.”

Listen to the Gee and Ursula Show weekday mornings from 9 a.m. – 12 p.m. on KIRO Radio, 97.3 FM. Subscribe to the podcast here.

Gee and Ursula Show

Gee & Ursula

social media...

Ursula Reutin

Ask Ursula: My cousin’s social media posts make me cringe. Should I say something?

Ursula offers advice on when — and how — to tell a loved one their social media posts may be hurting their professional image.

12 hours ago

screen time...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘We’re kind of suffering the consequences’: Seattle schools superintendent explains new limits on screen time and AI

Seattle Public Schools (SPS) is pulling back on classroom screen time and blocking more apps and AI tools.

22 hours ago

wa school sports initiative...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘My most uncomfortable vote’: Gee explains his support for WA’s school sports initiative as Ursula questions its requirements

Explore Gee Scott's support for Washington's school sports initiative amid Ursula Reutin's concerns on requirements and transgender participation.

1 day ago

schools Superintendent Ben Shuldiner...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘They can all come in’: Seattle schools superintendent says mergers could close 10 buildings, argues plan is about education

Seattle Public Schools could close 10 school buildings under a merger plan. Superintendent Ben Shuldiner said the goal is to improve education.

1 day ago

Pierce County Council candidate Brenda Lykins...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘They just want good government’: Pierce County Council candidate says voters are tired of us-versus-them politics

Brenda Lykins holds a big lead in the race for the Pierce County Council's District 7 seat.

2 days ago

Democrat...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘People’s bills got bigger than their bigotry’: Political analyst explains Democrats’ election surge

MS NOW political analyst Jason Johnson offered a blunt explanation for Democrats’ election gains.

2 days ago

Former WA sheriff: Police reform requires culture change, accountability