‘It’s about control’: Jake and Spike spar over proposed Amazon delivery bill backed by NYC mayor

New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani is backing legislation that would force Amazon to directly employ its delivery drivers instead of using subcontractors, and KIRO hosts Jake Skorheim and Spike O’Neill landed on opposite sides.

The Delivery Protection Act, sponsored by New York City Council Member Tiffany Caban, would create a licensing system for last-mile warehouses and require companies like Amazon to directly employ the workers performing deliveries, rather than shielding themselves behind subcontractors, according to a post by Mamdani’s office. Amazon currently uses roughly 2,600 delivery service partners across the country, individual business owners who contract with Amazon to deliver packages using their own fleets.

Jake called it government overreach.

“This is a silly government overreach,” Jake said on “The Jake and Spike Show” on KIRO Newsradio.

Spike said the subcontractor model allows Amazon to dodge responsibility for the workers who interact with customers more than anyone else in the company.

“Amazon is, like it said, absolving themselves of any responsibility to treat these employees fairly, to cover these employees’ insurance, to give these employees benefits,” Spike said. “They’re literally farming out half the work because their employees are treated pretty well. By all accounts, Amazon employees have a pretty good process, pretty good program, with health benefits. Except when it comes to drivers.”

Jake says the program works for everyone involved

Jake asked whether Spike thought the drivers were being unfairly treated.

“Yes, I do,” Spike said.

Jake pointed to the structure of the delivery service partner program. Partners can operate between 40 and 100 vans, with Amazon capping the size to keep operations small. He said the model is a legitimate entrepreneurial opportunity, and both the owners and their workers benefit financially.

“They’re making good money, and the people that work for them are making good money,” Jake said. “So you’re taking this infrastructure, and you’re saying we want to kill this infrastructure.”

He said forcing Amazon to bring everything in-house would hurt the speed that defines its service.

“Amazon has done this amazing thing where they’ve cracked this code where they can get one-hour delivery to your house,” Jake said. “Do you think that’s going to get better or worse if Amazon is forced to do all of that in-house, as opposed to somebody who’s out there with a specific route in a specific area scrapping to get you the service as quick as possible?”

Spike says Amazon should extend the same benefits

Spike said he wasn’t calling for Amazon to bring everything in-house but argued the company should extend the same benefits to subcontracted drivers that its direct employees receive.

“If Amazon’s going to subcontract out to these smaller carriers who have routes and equipment and personnel, then Amazon ought to offer them the same benefits because Amazon’s making money by subcontracting out and saving themselves the cost of doing business,” Spike said.

Jake said the real aim of the legislation is to unionize Amazon workers, not protect them.

“I think this is more about trying to unionize workers at Amazon than it is about providing safe work environments,” Jake said.

Spike didn’t dismiss that entirely.

“It may very well be, but I think both aren’t bad ideas,” he said. “Both of them can be beneficial to the worker, to the company delivering the products, to the customer receiving the products.”

“If it was beneficial to Amazon, wouldn’t they already be doing it?” Jake asked.

“No, because it’s beneficial for them not to do it because they’re making more money. They’re saving money,” Spike said.

Community risk and the DoorDash question

Spike said the subcontractor model puts both workers and the public at risk.

“It puts the community at risk because there’s increased numbers of accidents and injuries to these drivers, so it puts the working community and the receiving community at risk,” Spike said.

Jake countered by asking whether the same logic should apply to DoorDash drivers working primarily for McDonald’s.

“Should McDonald’s have to hire every DoorDash driver?” Jake asked.

“That’s a great question,” Spike said. “I don’t know if I’d have to look more into the issue than that.”

Jake pointed to Amazon’s existing safety incentives, including a weekly scorecard system that rewards drivers with fantastic or fantastic-plus ratings with bonuses up to $15,000 per week.

“So they should have the bonus safety; it should be baked into the cake,” Spike said.

‘It’s about control,’ Jake says

Jake said the legislation isn’t really about safety at all.

“It’s about control for him,” Jake said. “That’s what it’s about.”

“That’s a hell of an assumption,” Spike said.

“It’s what they say,” Jake replied. “They say this gives us more control over the company. It’s in the reading. You can read their statement. I mean, that’s my opinion. You and I have a different opinion. That’s OK.”

“That’s fine,” Spike said. “We can live together.”

Watch the full discussion in the video above.

Listen to “The Jake and Spike Show” weekdays from noon to 3 p.m. on KIRO Newsradio 97.3