‘For the rich and guilty’: Gee and Ursula split on proposal that would make it harder to hold people on cash bail

The Washington State Supreme Court is weighing a proposal that would make it much harder for judges to hold people in jail on cash bail before trial. KIRO host Gee Scott thinks the change is long overdue, while KIRO host Ursula Reutin worries it could let repeat offenders back on the street.

“The criminal justice system has always, in my opinion, been for the rich and guilty instead of the innocent and poor,” Gee said on “The Gee and Ursula Show” on KIRO Newsradio. “This is a good measure right here to put in place to help people be able to get out.”

Public defenders in King and Snohomish counties and some state defense groups are asking the justices to change court rules in four ways. Judges could no longer set bail just because someone is likely to miss a court date. Instead, they would have to find a high likelihood that the person would intentionally flee prosecution. Defendants would also get at least one chance to appear in court out of custody before a judge could set cash bail.

The proposal would cap bail for most low-level misdemeanors at $200, though DUI, domestic violence, gun charges, and sex offenses would be excluded. And instead of paying a nonrefundable 10% fee to a bail bondsman, defendants could deposit that 10% with the court and get it back if they make their hearings.

Defense attorneys told a courtroom Tuesday that cash bail keeps poor people in jail while they’re presumed innocent and pressures them to take plea deals just to go home, The Seattle Times reported.

Prosecutors, crime victim advocates and the Superior Court Judges Association oppose the change. King County Prosecutor Leesa Manion said the rule would cut court-ordered bail by 90% and remove a key reason for people to show up to court. A committee will send a recommendation to the justices, who can adopt, change or reject the rule.

Gee says no one should sit in jail just because they can’t afford cash bail

Gee said judges should still hold people who are dangerous or likely to run. But no one should stay in jail just because they can’t afford to get out.

“If somebody doesn’t have the money and they’re broke, and that’s the only reason why they’re staying there, then we got a kind of messed up system,” he said.

He compared it to car insurance companies setting rates based on credit scores.

“A lot of the system that we’ve done over the years have benefited those that have money,” Gee said.

He acknowledged that some people released before trial will cause problems, but said he thinks it happens far less than people believe.

“If you believe that this person is a threat to the community, if you believe that this person is a flight risk, if you believe that they’re not going to come to court, then do your job and protect us out here,” Gee said.

Ursula: ‘I just worry that it would result in more of that’

Ursula agreed that being poor shouldn’t mean worse treatment than someone with money. She said she could accept giving defendants one chance to show up on their own before bail is set.

But she pushed back on limiting bail for people likely to miss court.

“The whole point is you need to be able to make sure that this person gets in,” she said.

She also pointed to repeat offenders who keep getting arrested and released.

“If I’m to believe that this would cut bail basically 90% … I just worry that it would result in more of that,” Ursula said.

Gee noted that people with money also skip court and avoid accountability.

A listener in law enforcement weighs in

One listener texting the show, who works in law enforcement, sided with Gee.

“The amount of cases where the officer put someone in jail for stealing a T-shirt is ridiculous,” he wrote. “Lots of those cases are because the officer got mad. I’ve witnessed this myself.”

Ursula said Manion will join the show in the studio on Friday.

Watch the full discussion in the video above.

Listen to Gee and Ursula on “The Gee and Ursula Show” weekday mornings from 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. on KIRO Newsradio.