Pierce County Sheriff: ‘Black lives matter in a very important way’

Though Seattle police can’t comment yet on the range of issues left in the wake of the fatal shooting of Charleena Lyles, Pierce County’s sheriff may offer some context. Starting with this: Black lives matter.

“Black lives do matter,” said Pierce County Sheriff Paul Pastor. “Black lives matter in a very important way.”

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Charleena Lyles was an African-American mother killed by two white police officers after she reportedly threatened them with a knife. Lyles was recently suffering from mental illness, which adds another layer to the tragedy.

Sheriff Pastor made it clear while talking with KIRO Radio’s Ron and Don that black lives matter and explained why “Blue Lives Matter” is not a response to the sentiment.

“Blue lives matter to me, definitely,” he said. “I don’t say that as a reply because it begs the issue. I think when people say ‘Black Lives Matter’ what they are asking is ‘Don’t black lives matter? Individually? Don’t black people in America matter?’”

“They do,” Pastor said. “You know why, African-American people in America are a bellwether in how we are doing. We can chart how well America is doing by looking at the state of black America. Right now, we have to work harder on that. While black lives definitely matter, I don’t think they matter enough in the white community or the black community.”

Mental health

Pastor said that people have a misconception that every incident with police could have a positive outcome. People assume that some tragedies could be avoided if there was a mental health official present.

“It is a nice tool to have if it is available,” he said. “We under-invest in mental health and just say, ‘Just let the cops handle it. Let the cops respond. We don’t want to finance treatment, hospitalization. The cops will handle it.’ That stinks. It’s wrong. It’s not fair. That’s what enhances the likelihood of damage in these encounters.”

“We lay this on the porch of law enforcement,” Pastor said. “We don’t invest in doing something about it, and we wonder why we have these encounters.”

Lyles was taken into custody nearly two weeks before the June 18 shooting. She was recommended to mental health court. Officers were aware of her previous interactions with police and the mental health concern.

Non-lethal use of force

Many people asked on Ron and Don’s Facebook page: Why didn’t police shoot her in the leg? Or use a Taser? Or use other, non-lethal force?

“Generally, we are trained to aim for areas that will stop the action, however, people who even consider doing that have not been successful,” Pastor said. “Why? In the real world, when you are faced with something, it’s not like at the shooting range, it’s not like on television. There’s surprise, there’s chaos, there’s fear. People in combat will tell you that it’s not the same cool, calm, collective approaches.”

Pastor said he is in favor of using stun devices, like a Taser, but said that not all officers carry them. Pastor also notes that the devices are also controversial.

“I’ve heard a number of agencies around the country withdrawing from using Tasers,” he said. “Some of that has been pressure by interest groups who think it’s cruel and unusual, or who think that it causes terrible damage.”

Pastor said he has been hit with a stun gun from behind when he wasn’t expecting it.

“It hurt, it takes you down, and you can get up and carry on with your afternoon,” he said.