GEE & URSULA

Former WA sheriff: Police reform requires culture change, accountability

Jun 26, 2020, 5:26 PM

Seattle protest, police reform...

Seattle police downtown Wednesday. (Nicole Jennings, KIRO Radio)

(Nicole Jennings, KIRO Radio)

Since the death of George Floyd, there has been a renewed focus on racism and the topics of police reform and accountability. Former King County Sheriff Sue Rahr is currently in charge of the training for all law enforcement in Washington state, and joined the show to discuss how changing police culture is as important as punishing bad cops.

“I think the conversation around police accountability is based on, in my opinion, a very outdated model for holding police accountable. It’s the same model on which our criminal justice system is based. It’s known as the deterrence model, and it’s probably the most common way we all know for controlling human behavior,” she said.

“It rests on the belief that the human being, or in this case, that the police officer expects punishment for misbehavior to be swift, and sure, and painful. And the belief is, if that’s the case, they will follow the rules to avoid the pain. But in order for this model to work, they also have to believe that they’ll be caught.”

Rahr says that with improved technology and the proliferation of cameras, the approach must change and refocus.

“Now that we have cameras everywhere and officers are being caught in acts of misconduct, now we have to come to grips with, ‘OK, then what do we do on the punishment side of it?’ And there’s there’s a lot of due process and collective bargaining rights that impact this,” she said.

Former Sheriff Reichert: Elected officials have ‘failed to protect law abiding citizens’

As Ursula noted, we often hear about a few bad apples. But yet those bad apples end up getting their jobs back, or it’s hard for them to get a conviction. What does the union need to do for it to change?

“A conversation about unions is really tricky because I believe that unions are necessary and they are needed, because if we don’t have unions, then we’re gonna end up with cops that are very poorly paid and don’t have the resources they need. … The cases of misconduct that we’ve seen in the last several years are very extreme examples of misconduct, and it’s pretty clear that I think everybody believes they’re wrong.”

Seattle police officer: Policing won’t survive without public approval

“I think we’re missing the boat if we only focus on the most extreme examples of misconduct, because in my experience and in my conversations with hundreds of community members, the thing that damages trust with the community the most are what I call the thousands of paper cuts, and that is disrespectful behavior between officers and people in the community,” Rahr added.

Changing police culture

So because of union rules and collective bargaining agreements, Rahr believes that relying strictly on punishment for misconduct is going to be challenging. A culture approach matters as well.

“I think we need to put more effort into focusing on improving the culture, because again, officers are human beings and they’re going to be influenced by human behavior. And humans need desperately to be accepted by their group, whatever that group is. This is intensified in law enforcement because it’s a dangerous job and you rely on your partners for your very life,” she said.

“And if an officer violates cultural norms, they’ll get caught swiftly and surely, and they will be excluded from the group, and there’s no process protections. So if we really want to change police behavior … we really need to focus a lot of energy in the culture. I’m not saying we abandon the deterrence model because we do need those rules for the extreme behavior, but we can’t focus on the rules to the exclusion of the culture.”

Listen to the Gee and Ursula Show weekday mornings from 9 a.m. – 12 p.m. on KIRO Radio, 97.3 FM. Subscribe to the podcast here.

Please follow our Community Guidelines

Gee and Ursula Show

Gee & Ursula

Alaska Airlines...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘We’re estimating between 10 and 20%’: Seattle attorney suing Alaska, Delta and others says airlines teamed up to inflate fares

A Seattle attorney said airline passengers may be paying 10% to 20% more than they should because major airlines are sharing private fare data.

6 hours ago

tumwater work week...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘I would completely go for it’: Ursula embraces Tumwater’s offer to trade future raises for a four-day workweek

Tumwater employees opt for 32-hour weeks over raises, starting January. A bold move for work-life balance in the city.

10 hours ago

I-638...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘Who gets to question whether a girl is a girl?’: Gee and Ursula expect legal fight as Seattle School Board weighs suing over I-638

The Seattle School Board could vote Monday to take legal action against I-638, a ban on transgender girls competing in girls' school sports.

1 day ago

A full shopping cart is seen at Walmart. (Photo: Will Newton, Getty Images)...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘You can’t budget your rent’: Gee challenges budgeting advice as WA tops the nation in estimated grocery spending

Washington residents face high grocery costs, raising questions over traditional budgeting advice. Explore the financial implications.

2 days ago

Seattle restaurant revel la palma price...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘The prices here are outrageous’: Gee and Ursula discuss Seattle dining costs as her favorite restaurant closes

Ursula's favorite Seattle restaurant is closing, and Gee Scott sees a broader problem behind the struggles facing local dining spots: higher prices.

3 days ago

...

Gee Scott and Ursula Reutin Show

‘Fire him’: Gee calls for Auburn officer’s firing after charges are dropped against man punched on video

KIRO host Gee Scott said an Auburn officer seen punching a suspect should never work in law enforcement again.

4 days ago

Former WA sheriff: Police reform requires culture change, accountability